Digital BW, The Print

Mike - I half agree with you!

My background is in music - to me Schoenberg is standard repetoire and I can
trace how things happen as they emerge . I realised in my last post I was
coming off as a bit restrictive, but I firmly believe that if it is not 'in'
the work, then it is not part of the work. All art IMO is a balance between
a whole load o f factors, but I think there is a fundamental balance between
concept and product. If I can't, as a skilled reader, 'see' in the work the
concept, then it has failed and the concept stands 'in place of' the work as
the defining force.
I saw some of the kindof instruction-type work you described at the yoko ono
show, and it is poor stuff IMO. Now this is a personal view, and I would
take away anyone's right to make art in whatever way they choose, but when
this is placed in hierarchies, as 'better/best' then it produces problems
IMO. I don't think for e.g. that Hirst's work is that shocking or new, but
he has become a major media presence because he is writable about.

Anyway, thanks for the dicsussion!

Julian


----- Original Message -----
From: <mh@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] ART-what is it?


> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Julian Thomas" <
> julianthomas@t...> wrote:
> > Sad isn't it. Art dealers support stuff they can sell, critics write
about
> > things they can write about. None of this has anything to do with the
work,
> > but with the concept behind the work. Arts education (and I used to be
in
> > it) ,for a whole load of reasons that has very little to do with
teachers,
> > is doing a poor job of educating people about art - and very often
people
> > need the help of a dealer to interpret a 'concept'. And there is no
causal
> > link between those who have money to buy art as having the skills to
make a
> > judgement.
> >
> > Julian
>
> I halfway don't agree with you. When talking about dealers, you need to
> differentiate between the high end and the low end. Low end dealers,
> the kind that are in every city, deal in stuff that they can sell,
> usually a lot of Terry Redlin type paintings. High end dealers don't
> care about whether the art will look good over a couch because, as we
> have all seen, they can sell about anything (my old bosses had a
> sculpture made out of manure in our studio) Nothing has changed in the
> low end art world for a long time, and you won't really come away with
> much other then a pretty picture (probably of something cute)  High end
> art is always changing, usually much more interesting and will make you
> think, but not always something you want in your house.
>
> Critics mostly go along with the high end dealers, so they are not
> really hurting or helping things a lot of the time. The time when
> things become skewed is when a famous person (like a hollywood type)
> buys something and then all the other famous/rich people have to buy
> the same thing. We can only hope that there was someone knowledgeable
> in the field of art that influenced the original guy on his/her
> purchase.
>
> Art is a very complex thing, most people think that the upper echelon
> is pretty strange because they have no basis to understand nor the
> patience or determination to follow up. I can describe this with
> another one of my interests: volleyball. Most people can take or leave
> volleyball. Some play it, but they prefer a soft $10 ball and play with
> a standard rotation. But once you get into it, you learn that the play
> at the higher end is a completely different game. You play with a $60
> ball that is made with different materials in a different way; there
> are positions, each with a different responsibility, and you learn
> lineups, hits, and rules that you never knew existed before. Some of it
> is based on history and tradition, some of it is based on new rules
> that everyone likes to complain and argue about. Most people play maybe
> once or twice a year in someone's backyard or at the beach, I play
> twice a week, year-round, now.  Is good art something that should
> require such a commitment? maybe not, but as the world gets older, and
> people have more time on their hands, and doing something original
> becomes more difficult, things naturally become intricate and
> complicated.
>
>
> When you say this; "None of this has anything to do with the work,
> > but with the concept behind the work"
> you must remember that in a lot of those cases, the concept is the work
> and the concept is what the buyer is buying. You can go to some
> galleries and buy a piece in an edition and what you get are directions
> on how the create the piece yourself and a certificate that says you
> own number such and such out of such and such. Thankfully that is a
> moment in art history and I don't believe artists today are able to get
> away with such things. But if you come up with another twist,
> complexity, or concept that adds something new, you could probably sell
> an idea too.
>
> This is how art varies from other fields. An artist with very little
> experience/knowledge of the art world, can create great art.  Studying
> art will help you recognize and understand other people's work. It will
> help you see greatness, and your own work will improve, but studying
> alone will not make your work great. (that is why so many artists are
> frustrated)
>
> -mikeH
> toomanyartists.com
>
> ps
> The thing that is sad is not the high end art world, it is the low end/
> popular art world and the populations lack of interest in anything more
> than a nature scene. Trendy-ness is something the art snobs love to
> hate, but in actuality is one of the only things that help bring better
> art to the masses. Offensive or outrageous pieces can do the same thing
> because of the press and attention they receive (see Piss Christ).
>
>
>
>
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