JT: If one dosen't "get it" or understand, then the art may have failed to communicate to that individual; however, it does not automatically translate that the art is not good or not understandable to others. Personal opinion isn't worth much by itself. SCB From: "Julian Thomas" <julianthomas@...> Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] ART-what is it? Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:47:59 +0200 Mike - I half agree with you! My background is in music - to me Schoenberg is standard repetoire and I can trace how things happen as they emerge . I realised in my last post I was coming off as a bit restrictive, but I firmly believe that if it is not 'in' the work, then it is not part of the work. All art IMO is a balance between a whole load o f factors, but I think there is a fundamental balance between concept and product. If I can't, as a skilled reader, 'see' in the work the concept, then it has failed and the concept stands 'in place of' the work as the defining force. I saw some of the kindof instruction-type work you described at the yoko ono show, and it is poor stuff IMO. Now this is a personal view, and I would take away anyone's right to make art in whatever way they choose, but when this is placed in hierarchies, as 'better/best' then it produces problems IMO. I don't think for e.g. that Hirst's work is that shocking or new, but he has become a major media presence because he is writable about. Anyway, thanks for the dicsussion! Julian ----- Original Message ----- From: <mh@...> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 1:36 PM Subject: Re: [Digital BW] ART-what is it? > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Julian Thomas" < > julianthomas@t...> wrote: > > Sad isn't it. Art dealers support stuff they can sell, critics write about > > things they can write about. None of this has anything to do with the work, > > but with the concept behind the work. Arts education (and I used to be in > > it) ,for a whole load of reasons that has very little to do with teachers, > > is doing a poor job of educating people about art - and very often people > > need the help of a dealer to interpret a 'concept'. And there is no causal > > link between those who have money to buy art as having the skills to make a > > judgement. > > > > Julian > > I halfway don't agree with you. When talking about dealers, you need to > differentiate between the high end and the low end. Low end dealers, > the kind that are in every city, deal in stuff that they can sell, > usually a lot of Terry Redlin type paintings. High end dealers don't > care about whether the art will look good over a couch because, as we > have all seen, they can sell about anything (my old bosses had a > sculpture made out of manure in our studio) Nothing has changed in the > low end art world for a long time, and you won't really come away with > much other then a pretty picture (probably of something cute) High end > art is always changing, usually much more interesting and will make you > think, but not always something you want in your house. > > Critics mostly go along with the high end dealers, so they are not > really hurting or helping things a lot of the time. The time when > things become skewed is when a famous person (like a hollywood type) > buys something and then all the other famous/rich people have to buy > the same thing. We can only hope that there was someone knowledgeable > in the field of art that influenced the original guy on his/her > purchase. > > Art is a very complex thing, most people think that the upper echelon > is pretty strange because they have no basis to understand nor the > patience or determination to follow up. I can describe this with > another one of my interests: volleyball. Most people can take or leave > volleyball. Some play it, but they prefer a soft $10 ball and play with > a standard rotation. But once you get into it, you learn that the play > at the higher end is a completely different game. You play with a $60 > ball that is made with different materials in a different way; there > are positions, each with a different responsibility, and you learn > lineups, hits, and rules that you never knew existed before. Some of it > is based on history and tradition, some of it is based on new rules > that everyone likes to complain and argue about. Most people play maybe > once or twice a year in someone's backyard or at the beach, I play > twice a week, year-round, now. Is good art something that should > require such a commitment? maybe not, but as the world gets older, and > people have more time on their hands, and doing something original > becomes more difficult, things naturally become intricate and > complicated. > > > When you say this; "None of this has anything to do with the work, > > but with the concept behind the work" > you must remember that in a lot of those cases, the concept is the work > and the concept is what the buyer is buying. You can go to some > galleries and buy a piece in an edition and what you get are directions > on how the create the piece yourself and a certificate that says you > own number such and such out of such and such. Thankfully that is a > moment in art history and I don't believe artists today are able to get > away with such things. But if you come up with another twist, > complexity, or concept that adds something new, you could probably sell > an idea too. > > This is how art varies from other fields. An artist with very little > experience/knowledge of the art world, can create great art. Studying > art will help you recognize and understand other people's work. It will > help you see greatness, and your own work will improve, but studying > alone will not make your work great. (that is why so many artists are > frustrated) > > -mikeH > toomanyartists.com > > ps > The thing that is sad is not the high end art world, it is the low end/ > popular art world and the populations lack of interest in anything more > than a nature scene. Trendy-ness is something the art snobs love to > hate, but in actuality is one of the only things that help bring better > art to the masses. Offensive or outrageous pieces can do the same thing > because of the press and attention they receive (see Piss Christ). > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames." > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
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Re: [Digital BW] ART-what is it?
2001-10-24 by Sanford Barnes