Digital BW, The Print

At the end of the day one has to either decide to trust the opinions of others, or just one's own 'gut feel'.  Being held hostage by this longevity issue would certainly take the fun out of it for me.  I use the UC stuff, so I go with Wilhelm's assessments. And, wow.  Guess what, after a year and a half I haven't had a single print fade!!!  So, all I know for sure is that UC's in my printer, stored/displayed in my conditions, will last a year and a half.  
 
By the way, unless things have changed in the past few weeks, Paul doesn't develop the inks.  He is mixing, developing curves, and doing testing.  
 
Which brings to mind another question.  Who is the actual manufacturer of the third party inks that are on the market?  Why don't they weigh in on this issue?  Does Epson actually make thier inks?
 
Tom Baker

Steve Kale <stevekale@...> wrote:
Tom

Not to question in any way Paul's integrity (which I absolutely don't), but
to answer John's question directly Paul is hardly independent of MIS and the
development of the UT7 ink set. He IS the developer.

John - I think the issue is an economic one. MIS is a small independent
company and companies like Wilhelm charge a lot for what they do. So in
lieu of expensive independent testing they have worked with one of the most
respected people in digital B&W photography printing to develop a set of
inks which they believe meet the requirements of serious printers in this
area.

Steve

> From: Tom Baker 
> Reply-To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 20:52:13 -0700 (PDT)
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Paul Roark's Tests
> 
> I take it you are relatively new to this forum. Paul is a regular contributor
> to this group. Paul is a very critical photographer who has, for various
> reasons, taken a keen interest in print longevity. He works very hard at
> providing objective insight into this issue. And, he receives no money from
> any source related to this work. He certainly does not have the resources
> that Wilhelm or RIT have, but he is extremely helpful and open about his
> findings. I believe that his integrity in these matters is beyond reproach.
> That makes it easy for him to ask the tough questions, regardless of the
> vendor. He is tireless in his research on this (and most things he has an
> interest in).
> 
> Paul is quite highly regarded. He is doing a workshop on digital printing at
> Anderson Ranch in August.
> 
> So, he's a great resource for many of us. And, you can always contact him
> directly to discuss pros/cons of his testing and related matters.
> 
> You might check out his website.
> 
> Tom Baker 
> 
> john dean wrote:
> I'm sorry I don't know who Paul Roark is. Is he a scientist who
> specializes in chemical optical reactions? I know who Wilhelm is
> and know his many years of taking on Kodak before he joined up
> with Epson, HP, and Microsoft.
> 
> By independent I mean a lab like RIT who is not directly involved
> with the company that they do tests for. If Paul Roark fits into this
> category that that is great. Where did he gain his expertise for
> doing this kind of work? Where can I learn more about him? Like
> I said I am fed up with Wilhelm not testing all the great third party
> inks and media out there. He has been bought .
> 
> If Paul Roark is the new old Wilhelm, then I'm all for supporting
> him. I just want to learn more. I have only seen these tests on the
> MIS website ( like Lyson and Cone do on theirs). And they all tell
> us to "draw our own conclusions". I've been a photographer and
> fine art printmaker for 25 years but I am NOT a scientist. Why
> can't we have a one stop place where all media and inks are
> compared together by more than one independent source. I
> mean the most in demand products. That is what we need. And
> again, this is a huge market so I don't think money is the issue
> here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR
> TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE
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Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

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If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

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