Steve, I must agree emphatically with your assumption ³this is not an easy exercise (otherwise I am sure it would be much more prevalent today) and will likely take some time.² In fact I have had some conversations with some people deeply involved in color management solutions on the subject, and it has become obvious it will require the combined effort of a top-flight color scientist and graphics software programmer to develop an effective user friendly set of calibration and profiling tools. What it will take is the recognition the potential is a lot bigger than the minor niche market it is today. I have no doubts about this potential sitting in the cat-bird¹s seat I have relegated myself to occupy. The concept and function of soft proofing¹ was to be able to emulate what a publication document would look like printed on an offset press before the fact on a computer screen. It really would have no purpose if a black and white digital file could be managed for direct output in the same way color is managed. You would with a fully calibrated and profiled system automatically achieve screen to print matching through a Photoshop workflow. The interesting thing I have just recently experienced with a converted to B&W 2000P using curves supplied by Paul Roark, that if I open two copies of a grayscale image on screen in Photoshop, apply the PR curve to one and print it, there is an excellent print match with the unaltered copy of the image on screen. Sometimes the K.I.S.S. solution has its advantages. Regards, David B. Brooks Shutterbug Magazine E-mail: fotografx@... On 10/16/04 4:16 AM, "Steve Kale" <stevekale@...> wrote: > I am sure that the next stage of B&W printing will be to allow a colour > managed workflow that includes accurate control over the inks but I suspect > this is not an easy exercise (otherwise I am sure it would be much more > prevalent today) and will likely take some time. The solutions that exist > along these lines today are expensive and inflexible (they don't transport > to new inks for example). I have not used Paul's workflow but I understand > it involves the application of curves to an RGB file to alter the colour > composition of the file in order to manipulate the inks via a colour driver. > Hardly a what you see is what you get workflow. My point was that there > exists today an easy way to get quite a good softproof from any B&W > workflow. It is available to anyone with an Eye-One Photo. I have found > that this has taken a lot of the trial and error out of my B&W workflow. I > can simply work on an image and then soft proof for the paper I intend to > use and then apply an adjustment curve so that it then matches my original > file. Easy. No more too light/too dark vs screen. Now obviously if my > display were not correctly calibrated and I have not built soft proof files > (with Carl's workflow) for my B&W printer output then I would again be > shooting in the dark. > > >> > From: "David B. Brooks" <fotografx@...> >> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> >> > Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 19:29:37 -0700 >> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> >> > Cc: <stevekale@...> >> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] How reliable/ precise is your b&w print workflow? >> > >> > >> > Steve, >> > >> > I agree with your first sentence without reservation. However printing >> black >> > & white is not limited to a ³same as² workflow. There is no reason a user >> > cannot convert grayscale to RGB and thereby make the workflow process >> > amenable to the same controls as color. Several B&W (black ink) options >> > employ some aspect of this strategy. For instance the MIS/Paul Roark option >> > is a simple one which, although it requires using a ³same as² CMS profile >> > setting in Photoshop, also involves a print driver setting of ³no color >> > adjustment² . This allows the use of RGB curve files applied to the open >> > image which in a broad sense functions in lieu of a profile selection in >> > PrintSpace, providing data going to the printer altered to linearize the >> > application of CcMmY ink position output. >> > >> > Ideally it is technically and theoretically possible to fully utilize color >> > management and profiles to control B&W printing with black inks. What is >> > missing for users are two software components. The first is a way to drive >> > the printer to reproduce a standard grayscale image that would output a >> > print with a set of recordings resulting from that graysscale reflecting >> the >> > ink application performance for each printer ink channel. Then the second >> > step would be to ³read² the densities from the test chart print. This can >> be >> > accomplished with either a flatbed scanner which has the support to output >> > raw data, or with a photospectrometer. The key piece of need software would >> > allow inputting the density data read from the chart to be used to write a >> > profile applying preset algorithms to match ideal aim-points to control the >> > ink application for each ink color channel. >> > >> > Obviously a user B&W calibration and profiling capability will require a >> > significant investment in R&D, as well as programming and marketing to >> bring >> > these utilities to market. That will happen when the potential market is >> > adequately recognized in size potential by those in the industry who have >> > the capability to take the risks to undertake this challenge. From my >> > perspective there are many times more photographers already with a foot in >> > digital who have an interest in a B&W capability (if it is reasonably easy >> > and affordable), than there are among those already involved and using some >> > kind of currently available B&W printing option. >> > >> > Regards, David B. Brooks >> > Shutterbug Magazine >> > E-mail: fotografx@... >> > >> > >> > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as > they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same > page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep > them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership > without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W > printing. 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Message
Re: [Digital BW] How reliable/ precise is your b&w print workflow?
2004-10-17 by David B. Brooks