Digital BW, The Print

Phil, you are basically saying 'I'm ok because I can afford a 7000.' BTW
until you have a problem everything is ok, and when there is a problem, and
exeprienced users of piezo who have in the past been supportive of piezo are
having this problem. I've had 12 emails today alone from people saying they
have had similar problems. Face it, a problem exists with piezo and the cis
for a growing number of users, and when it happens the cost and damage is
born totally by the users. Just check out the claims for piezo desktop on
IJMs website. As you have had not had this problem you are not qualified to
comment on it - all you can say is 'it hasn't happened to me' and then
peopel like me will say 'but it has happened to me'. Like you, up until last
week I'd printed for over a year with the only problems being epson related.
My view of things has changed now that I see this green gunk. Things haven't
helped by the fact that Jon and Bill are away on a show, but Jon has said
that he wouldn't replace ink lost due to this problem. Anyway, from me -
enough. I'm sick of the problem, and I'm sick of the sanctimonious attitudes
by some people who adopt a 'I'm all right jack' attitude.

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Bard" <phil@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 4:03 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Moving to the 7000


> Hi all,
>
> I posted this over on BW6 in response to a lot of complaining (by
> relatively few people actually) regarding problems with desktop
> printers/Piezo inks.  Sorry if it's a bit long, but someone from this
> list requested I crosspost.
>
>
>
> I wrote about this some time ago, when I first installed my 7000, and
> don't want to cover the same ground to any significant degree, ie.  "is
> it worth the price?  How much better are the prints?"  etc, etc.  But
> in the interest of providing information I'll add the following.
>
> I for one have never had a "greenie" problem or odd posterization/lack
> of midtone contrast, or any of these other issues.  I have used an 1160
> for many months with a CIS and made hundreds of prints with it.  Lucky
> for me I suppose...  I HAVE always noted, and I'm surprised at how
> little this is described on this list, that the prints are always a bit
> green when they come out of the printer, and shift to warm/sepia after
> a couple days in the light.  Every one of them.  So if I have an issue
> at all it's that the color is warm.  I happen to like it, though it
> would be nice to have the option to make dead-neutral prints.  I'm not
> obsessing over it, however.
>
> To the point:  I made the decision about 3 months ago, based on seeing
> spectacular output from it, to purchase the Epson 7000.  I too wanted
> to avoid going the Windows route, having seen pretty awful experiences
> friends of mine were having in general use with their machines, but I
> was prepared mentally to go that route if necessary.  I wanted a
> printer I could rely on professionally, and thought it was unwise to
> place my 1160 in that situation. It seems just plain foolish to take a
> printer meant for the con/prosumer market, stick an ink technology in
> it that's still new and certainly evolving, and then start courting
> clients. No matter how great the prints were when it was working
> properly. So I must admit to a certain skepticism when I read people
> complaining that it's IJM's fault alone they can't print or deliver on
> promises to clients.  Not that I'm insensitive to this plight, I too
> would be distressed if it were me.  But I doubt the early film
> emulsions worked without problem either. And anyone back then would
> have been naive to expect it to do as well. It's taken 100 years to get
> that one right.
>
> Back to the 7000. Attempting to avoid the expense of the Pro24 software
> and Windows box, I gave the MIS inks/Roark workflow a try.  It was
> certainly cost effective, so what did I have to lose?  Paul doesn't
> have curves for the Mac/7000 so I started testing with him.  I soon ran
> out of patience with it, however, though I'm sure he'll get it
> eventually.  Coupled with the fact that there are NO paper profiles in
> his approach (meaning lots and lots of ongoing tinkering), and the fact
> that, from what I was beginning to see, the Epson driver can't match
> the output performance of the Pro 24 RIP. And although I know some are
> happy with this workflow, it seemed rather unintuitive and tedious-
> trying to match monitor and print, etc.  Problems also arose with the
> MIS CFS system, it started sucking air into the lines, so I dumped
> that. I wanted to be making prints at any rate, so $1600 for Piezo
> software and $550 for inks got spent, and I borrowed a Windows laptop
> to see if I could run the system from it. It worked beautifully until I
> attempted to make a large (20x24) print, and then things slowed way
> down.  Turns out that CPU speed and memory management (you need Windows
> 2000, not ME or 98) were the culprits. So I went ahead with the final
> step, which was to buy a desktop Windows box.  It now runs great, and
> since all I use the dreaded Windows box for is a print server, it stays
> out of trouble.  But based on the experiences with that so far, I won't
> ever give up my Mac for regular use.
>
> So you can do the math, yes, it's an investment.  As to whether its
> worth it for you only you can decide.  I recently exhibited carbon
> prints for the first time, alongside silver prints BTW, and the carbon
> prints that sold have already gotten me down the road to paid off.  And
> I marvel at each and every print that rolls out of the 7000, from 8x10
> to 24x30.  I now have a whole lot of hi-res scans to get, ie. most of
> my portfolio, but I regard that as an expense of doing business.
> Printing large from less than 100 MB files (from 4x5 negs) means a
> sacrifice in quality that is apparent with this system. I could easily
> have chosen to print only in the darkroom, but now I have the option to
> go either way, and with some of my more difficult-to-print images, the
> digital prints are better. "Feasible" is maybe a better word...
>
> This is a system that works well, better than the desktop versions
> including the 3000, both in terms of output quality, and, seemingly,
> reliability.  I've not heard of difficulties with clogged machines with
> other Piezo 7000 users. That doesn't mean there won't be, it's too soon
> for me to tell. I have one problem with printing in a certain density
> range, but that appears to be a hardware issue, and the printer may
> need Epson's attention.  It doesn't seem to be Jon's product that's at
> fault.
>
> I'd certainly love to see this work directly from my Mac, but I don't
> think its feasible to expect IJM to develop anything for System 9,
> since that's due to be superceded by OS X.  Perhaps they will deliver
> for that platform.  Creating software RIP's is an investment and
> requires a lot of time.  At least IJM has a software product, as
> opposed to MIS, which seems to rely on the good intentions of certain
> users who develop a workflow.  A fairly lackluster approach if you ask
> me.
>
> So I hope this provides some useful input from one user who is
> satisfied with the large format system.  It does take a committment.
> Its costly. Its not for everyone.  Even this is young technology- you
> should keep that clearly in mind.  Otherwise fire up the enlarger,I
> think there will be less whining for the members of this list to have
> to read...
>
> Best,
> Phil
> http://philbard.com
>
>
>
>
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