Good point, I've got some time off the day job at the beginning of Nov so I might go and give that a try. I've been itching to do some back-to-back comparisons between the Imacon and the 5400 for a ages. From what I hear, it may give a new meaning to the term "hard" however... -----Original Message----- From: Steve Kale [mailto:stevekale@...] Sent: 19 October 2004 15:32 To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Film Scanners Mike Go use the Imacon at Calumet in Drummond Street, NW1. You can rent it by the hour. I would be interested in what you think.... Steve > From: "Nunan, Mike" <mike.nunan@...> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:12:30 +0100 > To: "'DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com'" > <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: Film Scanners > > > Hi Daniel, > > Thanks for that. In the end, I actually bypassed everything and did > raw scans, which I then inverted in Photoshop to eliminate any > possibility of the scan software (either VueScan or DiMAGE Scan) > interfering with things. They still looked hard compared to the LS-30, > and very hard put next to the creamy (but > soft) output I got from the Epson Perfection 3200. I do take your > point about the grain looking more prominent when the contrast is high > -- I noticed that if I used curves to make the 5400 scans match the > Epson scans, the grain would calm down a great deal too. I have also had good results with Neat Image. > Ultimately, all these things are workarounds however. What I'd really > like is a scanner with the smooth, low-contrast tonality of the Epson > flatbed, and the resolving power of the Minolta. Maybe one day! > > Best, > > -= mike =- > > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel Staver [mailto:daniel@...] > Sent: 19 October 2004 12:32 > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Film Scanners > > > Make sure you set the highlight and shadow values very low in Vuescan, > otherwise the contrast will be hard. When I had the Minolta I would > use > 0.0001 for both values and 'White balance' for the color mode. My > scans would come out very flat, retaining all detail in shadows and > highlights. Then I could increase the contrast in Photoshop with the curve tools to my liking. > > As for grain I haven't noticed that big a difference in how different > scanner models will scan grain. My two previous scanners were the > Canon FS4000US and the Minolta 5400, and now I have a Microtek > Artixscan 120tf. The grain from all of them looks very similar - > assuming I adjust the contrast in the images from the different scanners to match as closely as possible. > > Contrast will always make a big impact in how you see the grain, so > it's important not to compare a contrasty image from one scanner to a > flat image from another, as the former will always look more grainy than the latter. > > Edge to edge sharpness is an issue with the Minolta 5400 though. It > can be difficult to get sharp scans if the film is even a little bit curved. > Actually this appears to be a problem with most film scanners and I > would recommed getting one that supports a glass holder to keep the > film perfectly flat. This will also allow you to play with fluid > mounting which can be a good way to smooth out the grain structure in many films. > > I've found that the latest versions of Neatimage has become very good > at reducing grain in high resolution film scans. Of course, if you use > too much noise reduction the image will look artificial and plasticky, > but if you're conservative you get to keep the grain structure of the > film while reducing it to less objectionable amounts. Noise reduction > values of 20-30% seems good for 4000dpi film scans of 400iso BW films. > > This can also be a good way to counter grain enhancing effects when > sharpening an image. If you reduce noise first and then sharpen you > end up with a much less grainy image than if you just sharpen > directly, which can easily increase the grain to unacceptable amounts. > > -- > Daniel Staver > http://daniel.staver.no > >> Thanks for the suggestion, but I have already given it a go, and I >> still see similar results. I'm pretty much convinced it's the light >> source. As I mentioned, it's possible to correct matters somewhat >> using curves, but that can have a deleterious effect on image >> quality. I think the "problem" is with the raw data coming off the >> sensor, not in the post-processing. I'm not trying to suggest that >> B&W shooters should avoid this scanner, just that it's worth checking >> out some scans before putting your money down, as it may not provide >> you with the results you want. > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other > resources as they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting > this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to > keep them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. 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Message
RE: [Digital BW] Re: Film Scanners
2004-10-19 by Nunan, Mike