Digital BW, The Print

Hogarth,

Bob Is still in the dark ages.. ..Bob pay attention to the list ..You may
learn a thing or two..

Cheers
Jim
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Hogarth Hughes [mailto:hogarth@...]
  Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 5:35 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Toxic yellow photorag!


  You make a valid point - that inks and papers have to be considered
  together. This is clearly true, and Wilhelm's results show this.

  But to say that we have to use Epson's inks and papers just because we
  are using an Epson printer is, well, absurd. I don't use GM brand gas,
  oil, or tires on my GM truck either.

  This is especially true since Epson eschews the B&W market. Many of us
  here find that Epson's inks make unacceptable B&W prints. Many of us
  find that Epson's (rebranded) papers are likewise unacceptable. And if
  you think I'm using Hahnemuhle Photo Rag because it's cheaper, you need
  to do some more research.

  Over time, the various manufacturers will learn to make more robust
  products, or the market will backlash on them. Epson is a prime example
  - the backlash against the ghastly fading and orange shifting of the
  1270 dye inks a few years ago begat the pigment ink onslaught which
  eventually resulted in the UltraChromes, which aren't half bad, for
  color inks.

  Without third party competition for the consumables market, we wouldn't
  be having this conversation. Without Media Street, MIS, Cone, Lyson,
  Hawk Mtn., Hahnemuhle, Futures, and many, many other companies,
  innovation would drop to a crawl, and users like me would have thrown
  their 1270s in the trash and returned to the darkroom.

  Blaming the users is not the answer. Competing manufacturers (third
  party or OEM) making better products, bringing them to market, and
  competing for market share is.
  --
  Hogarth Hughes


  Bob Frost wrote:

  >Peter,
  >
  >In my brief experience, 99% of the mysterious problems with inkjet prints
  >are due to people using 3rd-party inks and papers. Printer manufacturers
go
  >to a lot of trouble to get matching papers and inks that work with their
  >printers most of the time. Then along comes Joe Bloggs who thinks he
knows
  >better and can save a dollar/euro/pound or two by using WonderGlo ink and
  >Cheapo paper.
  >
  >The Wilhelm institute papers show how important it is to get the right
match
  >of ink and paper if you want longevity.
  >
  >Bob Frost.
  >
  >
  >
  >


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