Re: LCD vs. CRT. I have found the La Cie Electron Blue CRT to have superb
calibrated color. The monitor has a built-in srgb mode. You can also buy
the La Cie color calibration tool (similar to the Spyder but works only with
La Cie monitors) to get really precise colors.
La Cie also makes two models of LCD displays. www.lacie.com
Joe Bach
-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 11:03 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Digest Number 2579
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There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: LCD vs. CRT
From: Don Marcotte <dmarcot@yahoo.ca>
2. Re: Where is the ink turn off valve on this printer?
From: "john dean" <deanwork2003@...>
3. Re: Re: LCD vs. CRT
From: "Anthony G. Atkielski" <anthony@...>
4. Re: LCD vs. CRT
From: Steve Kale <stevekale@...>
5. 2200 being phased out or not. (was Re: Duotone Grey printing with
2100)
From: "Peter Nelson" <pnweb@...>
6. Re: Re: LCD vs. CRT
From: "Bob Frost" <bob@...>
7. Re: Re: LCD vs. CRT
From: "Bob Frost" <bob@...>
8. Re: 2200 being phased out or not. (was Re: Duotone Grey printing
with 2100)
From: Steve Kale <stevekale@...>
9. Time for a new paper
From: "Nelson Ricciardi" <nelson_@...>
10. Re: Time for a new paper
From: "Clayton Jones" <cj@...t>
11. Re: LCD vs. CRT
From: "Clayton Jones" <cj@...>
12. Re: Re: LCD vs. CRT
From: sdmey4@...
13. Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Without Obs
From: "john dean" <deanwork2003@yahoo.com>
14. Re: LCD vs. CRT
From: "john dean" <deanwork2003@...>
15. Re: Re: LCD vs. CRT
From: sdmey4@...
16. Re: LCD vs. CRT
From: "Joe" <drjoe2@...>
17. RE: Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Without Obs
From: "Jim Doyle" <jdoyle1713@comcast.net>
18. RE: Re: Time for a new paper
From: "Nelson Ricciardi" <nelson_@...>
19. Re: Re: LCD vs. CRT
From: "Robert W. Shearer" <rwshearer@...>
20. PRINT EXCHANGE - still have 2 spots for NOV. exchange
From: "Tom OConnell" <tomoc@...>
21. Re: LCD vs. CRT
From: Doug I. <puzzolente@...>
22. 1160 - bits of ink on paper edge
From: "frankg_photo" <fh.gross@...>
23. RE: Re: Time for a new paper
From: Tom Baker <tbaker1328@...>
24. Re: Re: LCD vs. CRT
From: Tom Baker <tbaker1328@...>
25. Re: LCD vs. CRT
From: "Anthony G. Atkielski" <anthony@atkielski.com>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 14:41:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Don Marcotte <dmarcot@...>
Subject: Re: LCD vs. CRT
The main criticism of LCD screens has been their low contrast ratios versus
CRTs. I can certainly see a huge difference between my wife's laptop screen
and my Sony Trinitron monitor. When I last looked a few months ago, they
were getting better. Do any LCD monitors match CRTs for image editing?
Don
"Anthony G. Atkielski" <anthony@...> wrote:
Jeff Magidson writes:
> Here are some other advantages I have found with the Apple LCD:
>
> No warm up time - CRTs will take at least 15 min to warm up and
> display proper color.
> Sharper - the LCD is so much sharper than the CRT and looks MUCH
> closer to the sharpness of the printed image.
> Less eye strain after hours of use than the CRT. No CRT radiation.
> The LCD is lightweight and easy to move around if necessary.
And the price?
Were there any defective pixels?
---------------------------------
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 19:46:24 -0000
From: "john dean" <deanwork2003@...>
Subject: Re: Where is the ink turn off valve on this printer?
-Thanks Ernst,
I see.
Since the total for the parts only cost me $50.00 I have ordered a new
capping assembly and a new pump assembly. I'll take a rest from it and come
back to it in a couple of days when I'm less stressed. In the meantime I'll
check on the prices of the 9600's. I don't imaging it is that smart buying a
refurbished one. I want major long term support, forever, for the life of
the printer. I'm sick of being covered with ink.
john
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 20:57:00 +0100
From: "Anthony G. Atkielski" <anthony@...>
Subject: Re: Re: LCD vs. CRT
Robert W. Shearer writes:
> Companies will make what sells.
Aren't people buying CRTs? What about pros?
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 20:18:03 +0000
From: Steve Kale <stevekale@...>
Subject: Re: LCD vs. CRT
Contrast ratios are up to 400:1 but are still well behind plasma or CRT.
The big downfall of LCD is its poor black generation. This is why it will
be a long time before plasma is pushed out of the living room/home theatre
environment. (Note even Apple's 16.7m colours is way off plasma's current
1070m and brightness also lags way behind plasma. They do outperform in the
resolution stakes which is important for close-up, ie computer monitor,
viewing) I think the over-riding sales advantage to LCD vs CRT is a better
form factor (space, style etc) and probably lower cost of
production/transportation/storage and higher retail margin. The bottom line
is they look cool and are good enough to get the job done for most people so
they sell. I would not want to rely on one to watch my DVD collection
though, let alone HDTV....But I can tell you there is a massive increase in
quality from an Apple laptop screen to one of their Cinema (now there's a
misnomer!) displays.
> From: Don Marcotte <dmarcot@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 14:41:04 -0500 (EST)
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@...m>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] LCD vs. CRT
>
>
> The main criticism of LCD screens has been their low contrast ratios
> versus CRTs. I can certainly see a huge difference between my wife's
> laptop screen and my Sony Trinitron monitor. When I last looked a few
> months ago, they were getting better. Do any LCD monitors match CRTs for
image editing?
>
> Don
>
> "Anthony G. Atkielski" <anthony@...> wrote:
> Jeff Magidson writes:
>
>> Here are some other advantages I have found with the Apple LCD:
>>
>> No warm up time - CRTs will take at least 15 min to warm up and
>> display proper color.
>> Sharper - the LCD is so much sharper than the CRT and looks MUCH
>> closer to the sharpness of the printed image.
>> Less eye strain after hours of use than the CRT. No CRT radiation.
>> The LCD is lightweight and easy to move around if necessary.
>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 21:29:00 -0000
From: "Peter Nelson" <pnweb@studio-nelson.com>
Subject: 2200 being phased out or not. (was Re: Duotone Grey printing with
2100)
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
> You assume the US is in front of the curve. The reference below
was, I
> believe, noting the situation in Japan where indeed a new A3+
printer is
> available. Watch this space to see the US (and Europe) play catch
up......
The US market is a vastly bigger market than the Japanese one (a
combination of a much bigger population and a much richer economy) so
Epson isn't going to phase out the 2200 until they have a replacement
available. Ditto with the EU.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 22:03:46 -0000
From: "Bob Frost" <bob@...>
Subject: Re: Re: LCD vs. CRT
Antony,
I use my Artisan for critical color work, but I use my Formac Gallery 21"
lcd for everything else, including much of my printing which isn't
absolutely critical in color terms. The LCD is far superior in everything,
except it can't display an absolutely neutral grayscale. It's sharper,
brighter, bigger, and just far more user-friendly than the Artisan. The new
Eizo is even better I understand.
Bob Frost.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony G. Atkielski" <anthony@atkielski.com>
Since CRTs are still superior to flat panels, why did they stop?
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 22:08:57 -0000
From: "Bob Frost" <bob@...>
Subject: Re: Re: LCD vs. CRT
Anthony,
For some things digital is better, and for some things film. Same for CRTs
and LCDs.
Digital and LCDs advance every month or two. Films, scanners, and CRTs are
rapidly becoming OT - old technology! They still have their uses, but the
world moves on.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony G. Atkielski" <anthony@...>
Is it like digital in place of film?
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 23:04:56 +0000
From: Steve Kale <stevekale@...>
Subject: Re: 2200 being phased out or not. (was Re: Duotone Grey printing
with 2100)
It is well known that Epson tends to release its new products in Japan
several months before their release in the US and Europe - hence members of
this forum keeping an eye on the Japanese "I love Epson" site. It has
released in Japan an A3+ version of the R800. I would expect this product
to be released in the US and Europe soon. This does not mean that it will
halt production of the 2200 (note the 1290 is still available). However, I
bet Epson considers the new R800-style printer to be its current
state-of-art A3+ printer. The 2200 brought us 7 (or more accurately 8)
colour pigment inks. This has now evolved to 7 different colour pigment
inks to broaden the colour gamut and a gloss optimizer to tackle the
bronzing issue on glossy media. Furthermore, there were improvements in the
droplet size. If you trace back to where this subject was first raised,
there was no inference that the 2200 was going to be phased out but rather
simply that a newer and arguably, for most, a better model was just over the
horizon. BTW, it is a dangerous assumption to presume that a bigger and
"richer" economy is an appropriate environment for launching new products.
> From: Peter Nelson <pnweb@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 21:29:00 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] 2200 being phased out or not. (was Re: Duotone Grey
> printing with 2100)
>
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
> <stevekale@b...> wrote:
>> You assume the US is in front of the curve. The reference below
> was, I
>> believe, noting the situation in Japan where indeed a new A3+
> printer is
>> available. Watch this space to see the US (and Europe) play catch
> up......
>
> The US market is a vastly bigger market than the Japanese one (a
> combination of a much bigger population and a much richer economy) so
> Epson isn't going to phase out the 2200 until they have a replacement
> available. Ditto with the EU.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 20:21:18 -0300
From: "Nelson Ricciardi" <nelson_@...>
Subject: Time for a new paper
Hi folks.
I`ve been using Epson Enhanced Matte and Epson Velvet Fine Art for all my
printing needs.
90% of what I do is EAM and the rest is Velvet.
Only my super images go to velvet :-)
Now I´d like to try something different.
I´m a fan of matte papers and would like to try a new brand / type of paper
based on your input.
I´m very happy with the results I`m getting. But with the number of
different papers available I have a feeling I´m missing something. On other
words, there must be more than 50 different options for an Epson 2200 and I
know just 2.
So, please folks, fire at will. What paper would you recomend for black and
white work on Epson UC Inks, using QTR, with a matte surface?
Thanks for any advice.
Nelson
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 23:49:21 -0000
From: "Clayton Jones" <cj@cjcom.net>
Subject: Re: Time for a new paper
Hello Nelson,
>Now I´d like to try something different.
>
>I´m a fan of matte papers and would like to try a new
>brand / type of paper based on your input.
Have a look at the "Great Paper Chase" article at the link below.
Regards,
Clayton
Info on black and white digital printing at
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 11
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 00:25:29 -0000
From: "Clayton Jones" <cj@...>
Subject: Re: LCD vs. CRT
Hello jeff,
>LCD
>No warm up time -
>Sharper -
>Less eye strain after hours of use -
>No CRT radiation -
>The LCD is lightweight -
Amen on all! Huge difference in eyestrain. Add these to the list:
- Recover several square feet of work space (a major feature!)
- Less heat generated
- I think they also use less current (anyone know for sure?)
Regards,
Clayton
Info on black and white digital printing at
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 12
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 19:34:10 EST
From: sdmey4@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: LCD vs. CRT
I switched this year from a Mitsubishi Diamond Pro to A Samsung 213t. LCD
Its a beautiful display 21inches and calibrates very well 1200.00
Sharpness and everything is an upgrade from my prior CRT.
IMHO its would be a little nuts to by A CRT at this stage of the game unless
its an absolute bargain and a temporary solution.
I will never go back to a CRT, but people tend to love what they are using.
Steve M.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 13
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 00:35:47 -0000
From: "john dean" <deanwork2003@...>
Subject: Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Without Obs
I thought there was going to be a Photo Rag coming out that didn't have
optical
brighteners, closer to German Etching but 100% rag. That didn't happen did
it?
Now we have H. Velvet White with even more obs? Right? How does that look. I
guess with
some inksets it could provide a cooler color with pigment quads.
John
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 14
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 00:39:48 -0000
From: "john dean" <deanwork2003@...>
Subject: Re: LCD vs. CRT
Yea, my girlfreind is a web designer and has one of those Samsung rotating
LCDs, and I
have to admit it looks pretty damn saturated and sharp, and takes up so
little space.
Tubes are so heay and fat, but this 22" Mistsubishi that I am using right
now is 4.5 years
old and still looks great. That surprised me. How long are the LCDs expected
to last,
realisticly?
john
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, sdmey4@a... wrote:
> I switched this year from a Mitsubishi Diamond Pro to A Samsung 213t.
LCD
> Its a beautiful display 21inches and calibrates very well 1200.00
> Sharpness and everything is an upgrade from my prior CRT.
> IMHO its would be a little nuts to by A CRT at this stage of the game
unless
> its an absolute bargain and a temporary solution.
> I will never go back to a CRT, but people tend to love what they are
using.
> Steve M.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 15
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 19:51:36 EST
From: sdmey4@...
Subject: Re: Re: LCD vs. CRT
In a message dated 11/1/2004 4:44:11 PM Pacific Standard Time,
deanwork2003@yahoo.com writes:
> How long are the LCDs expected to last,
> realisticly?
>
> john
>
Good Question! I dunno? I think there worth it if they only last 3 years,
they are only getting better and more affordable. In a couple years we can
probably get nice 21's for 600.00
Steve M.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 16
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 01:01:10 -0000
From: "Joe" <drjoe2@...>
Subject: Re: LCD vs. CRT
Clayton you have helped me with all your work on BO printing, paper
information, profiles etc etc. Consequently I have come to respect
your opinion. Therefore can you tell us what LCD display you are
using and if you had to purchase a new one now what would you get?
Joe
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones"
<cj@c...> wrote:
>
> Hello jeff,
>
> >LCD
> >No warm up time -
> >Sharper -
> >Less eye strain after hours of use -
> >No CRT radiation -
> >The LCD is lightweight -
>
> Amen on all! Huge difference in eyestrain. Add these to the list:
>
> - Recover several square feet of work space (a major feature!)
> - Less heat generated
> - I think they also use less current (anyone know for sure?)
>
> Regards,
> Clayton
>
>
> Info on black and white digital printing at
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 17
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 20:11:57 -0500
From: "Jim Doyle" <jdoyle1713@...t>
Subject: RE: Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Without Obs
John
Oba Free Photo Rag Is coming real soon.. Target Date has been extended.. I
will let everyone know when it is available..
Cheers
Jim Doyle
J.Doyle Enterprises L.L.C.
114 Old Orchard Rd.
Cherry Hill, NJ 08003
856-424-8660
www.shadesofpaper.com
-----Original Message-----
From: john dean [mailto:deanwork2003@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 7:36 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Without Obs
I thought there was going to be a Photo Rag coming out that didn't have
optical
brighteners, closer to German Etching but 100% rag. That didn't happen did
it?
Now we have H. Velvet White with even more obs? Right? How does that look.
I guess with
some inksets it could provide a cooler color with pigment quads.
John
Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.
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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 18
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 22:49:19 -0300
From: "Nelson Ricciardi" <nelson_@...>
Subject: RE: Re: Time for a new paper
Fantastic, Clayton.
Thank you very much.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayton Jones [mailto:cj@...]
> Sent: segunda-feira, 1 de novembro de 2004 20:49
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Time for a new paper
>
>
>
>
> Hello Nelson,
>
> >Now I´d like to try something different.
> >
> >I´m a fan of matte papers and would like to try a new
> >brand / type of paper based on your input.
>
> Have a look at the "Great Paper Chase" article at the link below.
>
>
> Regards,
> Clayton
>
>
> Info on black and white digital printing at
> http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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>
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>
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>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or
> you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership
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>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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________________________________________________________________________
Message: 19
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 21:03:18 -0500
From: "Robert W. Shearer" <rwshearer@...>
Subject: Re: Re: LCD vs. CRT
It would seem not; image quality seems to be improving, the obvious
advantage of space gained on the desk, steady down curve in pricing, weight.
Just a few of the apparent reasons. Plus marketing!
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony G. Atkielski" <anthony@atkielski.com>
To: "Robert W. Shearer" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: LCD vs. CRT
Robert W. Shearer writes:
> Companies will make what sells.
Aren't people buying CRTs? What about pros?
Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
Please follow these basic guidelines:
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them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
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printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
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guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
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MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
Yahoo! Groups Links
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Message: 20
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 03:03:05 -0000
From: "Tom OConnell" <tomoc@...>
Subject: PRINT EXCHANGE - still have 2 spots for NOV. exchange
Still 2 openings in the November exchange.
*15 participants
*due West Coast USA on Nov. 23
email if you are interested.
cheers,
Tom O'Connell
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Message: 21
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 21:15:26 -0600
From: Doug I. <puzzolente@...>
Subject: Re: LCD vs. CRT
IMNSHO, yes. ;-)
I work for a major national ad agency, and all of our 75+ art
directors, designers and studio/production artists are on Apple Cinema
Displays--and have been for 2 generations now.
Yes, we lease the monitors, so we don't have to deal with any pixel
failure or other potential long-term issues. And yes, we pull high-end
proofs from outside vendors to make sure color is dead-on for final
reproduction. But before it gets to that point, we have to pull plenty
of in-house prints for client approval. They (and our Creative
Directors) expect those to look great now--and for the proof to confirm
what they saw, not reinvent it.
I too err on the side of caution when it's my own money at risk. But
from first-hand observation, the Apple LCD's are definitely "good
enough" for companies with a lot more at stake financially and
reputation-wise than my little ol' photography business.
Doug
> Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 07:04:48 -0500
> From: Mark Savoia <mark@...>
> Subject: Re: LCD vs. CRT
>
> IMHO no.
> Mark
>
> On Oct 31, 2004, at 10:36 PM, craig_hanson_98110 wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm in the market for a new display monitor. I know there has been a
>> lot of debate in recent years about LCD vs. CRT, with high end CRTs,
>> such as the Sony Artisan, considered by many professional
>> photographers to be necessary for critical work. Are the newer LCDs,
>> such as the Eizo ColorEdge and Apple Cinema HD, "good enough" now
>> for either color or B&W work?
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Message: 22
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 03:26:31 -0000
From: "frankg_photo" <fh.gross@...>
Subject: 1160 - bits of ink on paper edge
I've tried cleaning the black plastic tray which has little 'pockets'
in it, over which the print head travels. But I am still getting
small ink stains on the very edge of the paper, particularly on one
of the trailing corners of the paper as it feeds through. It is
inconsistent with some prints coming out clean.
How can i get rid of this pestilence. It's a frustrating waste of
good prints
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Message: 23
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 19:47:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Baker <tbaker1328@...>
Subject: RE: Re: Time for a new paper
Nelson -
In the end lots of reading isn't bad. But, get in touch with a couple of
suppliers and have them provide some samples of the things that interest
you. I'ts probably the quickest and surest way to make a decission.
Tom Baker
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 24
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 19:49:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Baker <tbaker1328@...>
Subject: Re: Re: LCD vs. CRT
Not to mention that some of the LCD's just plaing look cool sitting on the
desk, even when they're not on.
Tom Baker
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message: 25
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:02:48 +0100
From: "Anthony G. Atkielski" <anthony@...>
Subject: Re: LCD vs. CRT
Clayton Jones writes:
> - I think they also use less current (anyone know for sure?)
Yes, about 1/3 to 1/3 the current.
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RE: [Digital BW] Digest Number 2579
2004-11-02 by Joseph Erbacher