Digital BW, The Print

Hi Clayton,
Thanks for the kind words. I really didn't mean to take your name in
vain in the discussion. I have a copy of your treatis on BO on hand
for reference. At the time of making BO printing curves I was still a
bit fuzzy on the front side-back side issue and hadn't gotten my head
around it all yet. As it happened I wanted to test and check out about
a dozen different papers I already had on hand and it looked like I
would probably need to derive curves for paper differences anyway.
When I discovered this group 3 or 4 years ago I still had only a 1200
with Mis color pigs and couldn't dedicate it to B&W. I also was using
Pshop4 which had been obtained very dearly.(or it seemed so at the
time to a health related early retiree-remember the market
fiasco/enron/xerox etc). Consequently I determined to do the best I
could with what I had. Usually, if I determine something, I find a way.
One of the things I learned was that the curves I made not only worked
then but worked just as well when I later upgraded to Pshop5(when I
felt more affluent) and later still to Pshop7(where I actually could
Use color management). If my photo looked the same on screen in all of
the versions, it looked fine on the print. I most definitely am in
favor of transportability as change will come whether I will it or
not. To that end, controling things with Pshop curves if not elegant
should be pretty transparent at least. When and if BO printing doesn't
work for me, I'll change methods to what does work. BO is only a part
of it as I also do color and began not too long ago to do Quads, where
I'm still in the learning curve. I have found that BO is very
effective for some photos and I have always been a fan of the Tri-x
look and have lots of appropriate negatives for use.

I do use color management all along the way now for color work as I
find the soft proofing concept to be very effective too. It has not
proven necessary as yet to go the high dollar hardware route and I
don't anticipate that it will for some time. I would be a good example
of the closed loop concept I guess although I frankly believe that a
file edited on an acceptably  profiled monitor under "any" currently
available workspace should be as portable as it can get irrespective
of who outputs it. After all, that is the entire point of color
management. The profiled output is the responsibility of the
"outputer". If they don't tinker with or change the actual file values
in any way, a properly profiled output device will print it supposedly
identically to the way a properly profiled monitor will show it--
with,of course, the usual caveats.
Likewise, if one hasn't the capability to profile the output device,
for whatever reason, it is perfectly acceptable to apply a
conversion/printing curve to accomplish the same thing. Again, the
result be on the head of the "outputer":)

AS an aside, I would like to say as have others, Thank You, for your
ongoing generosity to the folks in this community. I have watched the
threads run through this list and you have left large footprints.

(I spent many hours over the course of a couple of months and read the
entire contents of the archives when I first joined the group.)

Regards
Duane

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Jones"
<cj@c...> wrote:
> 
> Paul, Steve, Duane, Carolyn, Tyler, et al,
> 
> I have followed this thread with interest and have a few comments to
> add.