"If you are seeking creative ideas, go out walking. Angels whisper to a man when he goes for a walk." -- Raymond Inmon On Jun 17, 2005, at 2:12 PM, DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com wrote: > There are 9 messages in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. RE: Lascaux Fixative - How to use? > From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@verizon.net> > 2. RE: Epson & Inks ( Major Concern) > From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> > 3. Re: Epson & Inks ( Major Concern) > From: Richard Nagle <cms01@...> > 4. Re: Epson & Inks ( Major Concern) > From: Steve Kale <stevekale@btinternet.com> > 5. RE: BO Printing with PKN ink? (one for Paul Roark). > From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> > 6. Re: Epson & Inks ( Major Concern) > From: Steve Kale <stevekale@btinternet.com> > 7. Re: Lascaux Fixative - How to use? > From: Scott McLoughlin <scott@...> > 8. Re: Epson & Inks ( Major Concern) > From: Scott McLoughlin <scott@...> > 9. Re: Lascaux Fixative - How to use? > From: "jamesdsteele2001" > <photographybysteele@...> > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:29:03 -0700 > From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> > Subject: RE: Lascaux Fixative - How to use? > > I use 3 or 4 light coats. It dries to the touch almost immediately. > But > it'll smell bad for a day. So I let it hang to dry overnight. > > Since it is so invisible on matte paper, it's rather forgiving. I > hang my > print with a weight on the bottom. I do horizontal, vertical, and > diagonal > spray paths, always starting the spray not aimed at the print in case > there > is a semi-dry glop at first. I think I'm about 12" away from the > print and > move at about a rate of 12" per second. After each spray I use a hair > drier > on the print, go out and catch a breath of fresh air, and then apply > the > next coat. I only clear the nozzle (spray upside down) when I'm > totally > done with the print -- only a single spraying session per print. I do > wear > goggles. > > Hope this helps. > > Paul > www.PaulRoark.com > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com >> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of >> Scott >> McLoughlin >> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 8:51 AM >> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [Digital BW] Lascaux Fixative - How to use? >> >> I bought a few cans of this to try on matte prints. >> >> Oddly, there's no instructions on the can (just not to breath the >> stuff >> or set it >> on fire). I also Googled looking for some instructions, and found >> nothing >> specific (just to use it outdoors and that it's seems popular with >> pastel artists). >> >> So how should I apply this? Multiple coats? How long should it take >> to >> dry? Any gotchas to worry about? >> >> If I missed the key URL that has all this info, I apologize in >> advance. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Scott >> >> >> >> >> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other >> resources as >> they are often being updated. >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint >> >> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish >> to >> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this >> same >> page. >> >> Please follow these basic guidelines: >> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to >> keep >> them short. >> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or >> flames. >> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the >> membership without notice. >> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital >> B&W >> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed >> from >> the membership. >> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and >> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group >> Owner >> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files >> section: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ >> >> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE >> PRINT >> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND >> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE >> TO >> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR >> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF >> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE >> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE >> BEEN >> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE >> USE >> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) >> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; >> (iii) >> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT >> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE >> PRINT YAHOO GROUP. >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:29:03 -0700 > From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> > Subject: RE: Epson & Inks ( Major Concern) > > The 7600 carts are so easy to rinse and re-use, that I may just end up > using > Epson carts with MIS ink. > > Paul > www.PaulRoark.com > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com >> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of >> john >> dean >> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 8:29 AM >> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson & Inks ( Major Concern) >> >> Could very well be that people out there who are using or or >> interested in >> using the pressurized ink carts ( me), as used by the 10K series could >> find >> their sources of these "patented?" devices removed from the market. >> But >> of >> far more concern is the new series of Epson's like the 7800- 9800 >> which >> also >> will use pressurized carts. Sure, they want to make it as difficult as >> possible for >> others to compete. >> >> John >> >> >> >> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" < >> paul.roark@v...> wrote: >>> MIS believes the Chinese company that produces the clear carts has a >> valid >>> patent on its design. MIS is more worried about a price increase >>> from >> this >>> company as the other knock-off competitors get wiped out by Epson. >>> >>> Paul >>> www.PaulRoark.com >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other >> resources as >> they are often being updated. >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint >> >> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish >> to >> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this >> same >> page. >> >> Please follow these basic guidelines: >> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to >> keep >> them short. >> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or >> flames. >> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the >> membership without notice. >> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital >> B&W >> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed >> from >> the membership. >> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and >> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group >> Owner >> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files >> section: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ >> >> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE >> PRINT >> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND >> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE >> TO >> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR >> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF >> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE >> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE >> BEEN >> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE >> USE >> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) >> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; >> (iii) >> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT >> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE >> PRINT YAHOO GROUP. >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:52:41 -0400 > From: Richard Nagle <cms01@tampabay.rr.com> > Subject: Re: Epson & Inks ( Major Concern) > > This is why I had to ask the group... > because, it makes no-sense in using a certain type of brand one week, > and next week, there gone. > > I would like to hear from MIS spoke person.... > > Rick > > > > john dean, deanwork2003@yahoo.com, Friday, June 17, 2005 > >> Could very well be that people out there who are using or or >> interested in >> using the pressurized ink carts ( me), as used by the 10K series >> could find >> their sources of these "patented?" devices removed from the market. >> But of >> far more concern is the new series of Epson's like the 7800- 9800 >> which also >> will use pressurized carts. Sure, they want to make it as difficult >> as possible >> for >> others to compete. >> >> John >> >> >> >> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" < >> paul.roark@v...> wrote: >>> MIS believes the Chinese company that produces the clear carts has a >>> valid >>> patent on its design. MIS is more worried about a price increase >>> from this >>> company as the other knock-off competitors get wiped out by Epson. >>> >>> Paul >>> www.PaulRoark.com >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 18:40:10 +0100 > From: Steve Kale <stevekale@...> > Subject: Re: Epson & Inks ( Major Concern) > > I think you will find the cartridges in question were not empty. > > >> From: Scott McLoughlin <scott@...> >> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> >> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:43:39 -0400 >> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson & Inks ( Major Concern) >> >> I agree with you in principle, but I don't know that I agree with you >> in >> this >> case (or many similar cases). >> >> We want innovative devices (including printers) that support media >> (ink) >> and >> accessories (cartridges) from many competing suppliers, plain and >> simple. Has >> nothing to do with Epson's fair chances of making a few bucks. (No >> company >> has a "right" to profit from their innovations at all. If that were >> true, I'd do alot >> better in the stock market :-) >> >> I can't recall the vendor, but a data backup/storage company added >> some >> encryption >> to their compression, arguing that only their software can be used to >> access backed >> up data (e.g., DMCA). The software might be quite innovative, but the >> artificial >> restriction (ultimately legal) was not.I think in this case, alot of >> bad >> press and a lawsuit >> (State Farm or some other big buyer) rectified the situation. >> >> The computer industry, definitely with some exceptions, is largely >> driven by evolving >> industry de jure and de facto standards, and a strong customer >> preference for some >> degree of interoperability and customer choice. Still many vendors >> make >> plenty of >> money. >> >> The consumers in the consumer technology industries are far less >> organized and >> are generally treated like saps as they waste their $$$ on proprietary >> technologies. >> >> So back to Epson. If their printers are innovative, then sell 'em. If >> their ink is innovative >> (and it is!), then sell that. But cartridges? Me'thinks not. In any >> case, customers >> should pay for the innovations on a case by case basis. I should be >> able >> to buy a >> really nice, fast Sony DVD burner and use really crappy DVD media in >> it >> if I want >> too. >> >> Scott >> > > > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:47:33 -0700 > From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> > Subject: RE: BO Printing with PKN ink? (one for Paul Roark). > >> ... > >> 1. Will PKN ink work with UT7 inks in the printer. > > PKN is for glossy printing. So, if you put PKN in the K spot, you can > do > quite good BO printing on glossy papers, which is really a big benefit > for > color printers who want an occasional B&W glossy print. It's quite > neutral > and has relatively low bronzing, especially on Kirkland. > > But, if you're using UT7, you don't need to do this. UT7 with Eboni > installed prints very nice and neutral glossy prints, which can be > quite > neutral even down into the deep shadows -- because it is not using the > warm > PK or Eboni there. The black tone can be controlled by the ratio of > UT7 C > and M position inks (Red and Green curves) used in the curves. > > > >> >> 2. Will this ink show improvement only for gloss paper >> (recommendations?) or for matte as well. > > > PKN only works for glossy printing. With matte printing you need to > use > Eboni (or other matte black), and I have not been able to make a good > neutral version of a matte black. The pigment loading of Eboni is very > high. Addition of color pigments to cool it lowers the dmax > unacceptably -- > to me. > > >> 3. How is this ink different from using Eboni Black or Photo Black >> of UT7 inks for the BO process? > > PKN has "blue" pigment toner in it. Given the spectral > characteristics of > carbon and the blue toner, the complementary absorptions result in a > dmax > that is higher than either pigment by itself -- but only at the lower > loads > needed for optimal glossy dmax. > > >> >> BTW, I'm using EEM and PR at the moment. > > Stay with UT7 and Eboni. PKN is really for color glossy printers or > C86 > users. You won't really benefit from it if you're using UT7. > > Paul > www.PaulRoark.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 18:48:08 +0100 > From: Steve Kale <stevekale@...> > Subject: Re: Epson & Inks ( Major Concern) > > When I was at Photoplus last year the Epson guys said they only broke > even > on the hardware. I doubt that this is the case in, say, the UK where > they > charge 80% more for them. My bet though is that the true profit is in > the > ink cartridges and other media (again, look what they charge in the > UK!!). > I don't blame them for going after pirates, nor even after those that > are > copying their cartridge design to fill with innovative inks. The > former is > good, the latter sucks for us as it does restrict innovation. On the > other > hand, if I were an ink research company and came up with a blow-out > formula > but was prevented from putting it in an Epson compatible cart there are > plenty of other hardware companies that one could approach and help get > ahead. The issue in question is about piracy not innovation. > > >> From: Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> >> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> >> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:18:47 -0700 >> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> >> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Epson & Inks ( Major Concern) >> >>> >>> Question - Are Epson printers "loss leaders" that really require >>> considerable >>> ink sales to achieve profitability? Reminds of the Xbox hacking >>> issue a >>> couple of years ago. >> >> I think we might be getting a bit of a free ride from their business >> model, >> which I call the Gillette model -- give away the razor and nick them >> with >> the blades. For example, the sale price on C86s can be incredibly >> low. On >> the other hand, I suspect in general Epson is not selling for a loss. >> >> Paul >> www.PaulRoark.com > > > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:50:41 -0400 > From: Scott McLoughlin <scott@...> > Subject: Re: Lascaux Fixative - How to use? > > John and Paul, > > Thanks! That's just what I need to know. I'll give it a whirl later > today. > > Scott > > Paul Roark wrote: > >> I use 3 or 4 light coats. It dries to the touch almost immediately. >> But >> it'll smell bad for a day. So I let it hang to dry overnight. >> >> Since it is so invisible on matte paper, it's rather forgiving. I >> hang my >> print with a weight on the bottom. I do horizontal, vertical, and >> diagonal >> spray paths, always starting the spray not aimed at the print in case >> there >> is a semi-dry glop at first. I think I'm about 12" away from the >> print and >> move at about a rate of 12" per second. After each spray I use a hair >> drier >> on the print, go out and catch a breath of fresh air, and then apply >> the >> next coat. I only clear the nozzle (spray upside down) when I'm >> totally >> done with the print -- only a single spraying session per print. I do >> wear >> goggles. >> >> Hope this helps. >> >> Paul >> www.PaulRoark.com >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com >>> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of >>> Scott >>> McLoughlin >>> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 8:51 AM >>> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com >>> Subject: [Digital BW] Lascaux Fixative - How to use? >>> >>> I bought a few cans of this to try on matte prints. >>> >>> Oddly, there's no instructions on the can (just not to breath the >>> stuff >>> or set it >>> on fire). I also Googled looking for some instructions, and found >> nothing >>> specific (just to use it outdoors and that it's seems popular with >>> pastel artists). >>> >>> So how should I apply this? Multiple coats? How long should it take >>> to >>> dry? Any gotchas to worry about? >>> >>> If I missed the key URL that has all this info, I apologize in >>> advance. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Scott >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other >> resources as >>> they are often being updated. >>> >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint >>> >>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish >>> to >>> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting >> this same >>> page. >>> >>> Please follow these basic guidelines: >>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages >> to keep >>> them short. >>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or >>> flames. >>> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the >>> membership without notice. >>> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital >>> B&W >>> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed >> from >>> the membership. >>> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and >>> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group >>> Owner >>> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files >>> section: >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ >>> >>> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE >>> PRINT >>> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND >>> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE >>> LIABLE TO >>> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR >>> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF >>> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE >>> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE >>> BEEN >>> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE >>> USE >>> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) >>> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; >> (iii) >>> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT >>> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE >>> PRINT YAHOO GROUP. >>> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other >> resources as they are often being updated. >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint >> >> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish >> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting >> this same page. >> >> Please follow these basic guidelines: >> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to >> keep them short. >> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or >> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from >> the membership without notice. >> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital >> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be >> removed from the membership. >> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and >> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group >> Owner and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the >> Files section: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ >> >> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE >> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER >> AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE >> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, >> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, >> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE >> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT >> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), >> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, >> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF >> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD >> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER >> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> -- >> *Yahoo! Groups Links* >> >> * To visit your group on the web, go to: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/ >> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com? >> subject=Unsubscribe> >> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>. >> >> > > > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:52:27 -0400 > From: Scott McLoughlin <scott@...> > Subject: Re: Epson & Inks ( Major Concern) > > Gotcha. So if it's ink (chemical) pattent issues, that I can > understand. > > I did Google for the Epson story for more info. Even tried SlashDot, > but couldn't find detailed info on the specific patented technologies > at > issue. > > Scott > > Steve Kale wrote: > >> I think you will find the cartridges in question were not empty. >> >> >>> From: Scott McLoughlin <scott@...> >>> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> >>> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:43:39 -0400 >>> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> >>> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson & Inks ( Major Concern) >>> >>> I agree with you in principle, but I don't know that I agree with >>> you in >>> this >>> case (or many similar cases). >>> >>> We want innovative devices (including printers) that support media >>> (ink) >>> and >>> accessories (cartridges) from many competing suppliers, plain and >>> simple. Has >>> nothing to do with Epson's fair chances of making a few bucks. (No >> company >>> has a "right" to profit from their innovations at all. If that were >>> true, I'd do alot >>> better in the stock market :-) >>> >>> I can't recall the vendor, but a data backup/storage company added >>> some >>> encryption >>> to their compression, arguing that only their software can be used to >>> access backed >>> up data (e.g., DMCA). The software might be quite innovative, but the >>> artificial >>> restriction (ultimately legal) was not.I think in this case, alot of >>> bad >>> press and a lawsuit >>> (State Farm or some other big buyer) rectified the situation. >>> >>> The computer industry, definitely with some exceptions, is largely >>> driven by evolving >>> industry de jure and de facto standards, and a strong customer >>> preference for some >>> degree of interoperability and customer choice. Still many vendors >>> make >>> plenty of >>> money. >>> >>> The consumers in the consumer technology industries are far less >>> organized and >>> are generally treated like saps as they waste their $$$ on >>> proprietary >>> technologies. >>> >>> So back to Epson. If their printers are innovative, then sell 'em. If >>> their ink is innovative >>> (and it is!), then sell that. But cartridges? Me'thinks not. In any >>> case, customers >>> should pay for the innovations on a case by case basis. I should be >>> able >>> to buy a >>> really nice, fast Sony DVD burner and use really crappy DVD media in >>> it >>> if I want >>> too. >>> >>> Scott >>> >> >> >> >> >> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other >> resources as they are often being updated. >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint >> >> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish >> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting >> this same page. >> >> Please follow these basic guidelines: >> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to >> keep them short. >> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or >> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from >> the membership without notice. >> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital >> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be >> removed from the membership. >> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and >> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group >> Owner and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the >> Files section: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ >> >> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE >> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER >> AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE >> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, >> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, >> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE >> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT >> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), >> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, >> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF >> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD >> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER >> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> -- >> *Yahoo! Groups Links* >> >> * To visit your group on the web, go to: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/ >> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com? >> subject=Unsubscribe> >> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>. >> >> > > > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 18:02:17 -0000 > From: "jamesdsteele2001" > <photographybysteele@...> > Subject: Re: Lascaux Fixative - How to use? > > Any thoughts on double spraying, ie. initially with a UV spray and > then the Lascaux? > > JIm > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" > <paul.roark@v...> > wrote: >> I use 3 or 4 light coats. It dries to the touch almost immediately. >> But >> it'll smell bad for a day. So I let it hang to dry overnight. >> >> Since it is so invisible on matte paper, it's rather forgiving. I >> hang my >> print with a weight on the bottom. I do horizontal, vertical, and >> diagonal >> spray paths, always starting the spray not aimed at the print in case >> there >> is a semi-dry glop at first. I think I'm about 12" away from the >> print and >> move at about a rate of 12" per second. After each spray I use a >> hair drier >> on the print, go out and catch a breath of fresh air, and then apply >> the >> next coat. I only clear the nozzle (spray upside down) when I'm >> totally >> done with the print -- only a single spraying session per print. I >> do wear >> goggles. >> >> Hope this helps. >> >> Paul >> www.PaulRoark.com >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com >>> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of >>> Scott >>> McLoughlin >>> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 8:51 AM >>> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com >>> Subject: [Digital BW] Lascaux Fixative - How to use? >>> >>> I bought a few cans of this to try on matte prints. >>> >>> Oddly, there's no instructions on the can (just not to breath the >>> stuff >>> or set it >>> on fire). I also Googled looking for some instructions, and found >>> nothing >>> specific (just to use it outdoors and that it's seems popular with >>> pastel artists). >>> >>> So how should I apply this? Multiple coats? How long should it >>> take to >>> dry? Any gotchas to worry about? >>> >>> If I missed the key URL that has all this info, I apologize in >>> advance. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Scott >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other >>> resources as >>> they are often being updated. >>> >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint >>> >>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish >>> to >>> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting >>> this same >>> page. >>> >>> Please follow these basic guidelines: >>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages >>> to keep >>> them short. >>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or >>> flames. >>> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the >>> membership without notice. >>> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital >>> B&W >>> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed >>> from >>> the membership. >>> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and >>> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group >>> Owner >>> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files >>> section: >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ >>> >>> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE >>> PRINT >>> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND >>> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE >>> LIABLE TO >>> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR >>> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF >>> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE >>> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE >>> BEEN >>> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE >>> USE >>> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) >>> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; >>> (iii) >>> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT >>> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE >>> PRINT YAHOO GROUP. >>> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other > resources as they are often being updated. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting > this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to > keep them short. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from > the membership without notice. > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be > removed from the membership. > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group > Owner and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the > Files section: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER > AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE > LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE > LOSSES (EVEN IF THE OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT > YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), > RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, > THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF > YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD > PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER > MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > > >
Message
Re: [Digital BW] Digest Number 3198
2005-06-18 by Dan Biferie