Digital BW, The Print

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla
<E.Dinkla@c...> wrote:
....

> So, it isn't just about the use of the Kkk's in greyscale mode but the 
> neutralising and/or toning as available in Advanced B&W mode that I do 
> not see appear in RIPs.  With good profiled color printing it shouldn't 
> be a problem to use neutral RGB c.q. duotone RGB for similar results. 
> Though the B&W quality will not exceed QTR or Advanced B&W printing.
And 
> many designers will be disappointed when their greyscale files in PDFs 
> don't print neutral.

Hello Ernst. This and a few other issues you mention should be
addressed by an option in the RIP to treat grayscale as RGB. This is
in StudioPrint and Colorburst, don't know about the others.
> 
> On top of that the greyscale images are either having gamma or dotgain 
> added and CM in the RIP is reserved for color only. So the perceptual 
> quality will suffer if compared to what we are already having despite 
> the partitioning + linearisations that's available in the RIP. 

See above, then it will be treated like any other CM transform, with
intent options etc. available.

> There 
> may be exceptions where perceptual adjustments are done on the
greyscale 
> data, I don't know whether they exist.

I have not seen any, but have limited experience with any RIPs but
StudioPrint.

> Little would be needed to make greyscale neutral and more perceptually 
> correct. I would love to see the first report here of a Postscript RIP 
> that has some sliders to get there. Ergosoft's Posterprint is the most 
> likely winner.

I don't know if PP has any options in that regard that SP does not.
But in SP, a monochromatic B&W setup is not in the CM data path, all
adjustments are essentially 2 dimensional. Industry wide acceptance
and availability of single channel icc profiles has not caught on. As
has been discussed tools to create them are scarce at best. In fact, a
single channel profile would be two dimensional anyway, at least on
output.
However, I have to say that I have yet to experience a problem with a
good linearized non-cm B&W workflow with regard to conversion for
output. I have followed the discussions here about it but tend to
disagree with any urgent need. On the other hand, being a cm user
everywhere else, I think advanced B&W should get on board with it as well.

I see a split happening in advanced B&W with the introduction of
printers with more ink tanks. With multi part Ks and full color inks
available in the same printer, advanced B&W falls more into the CM
camp than ever before. With good partitioning and linearization, good
profiles, wise choices with GCR, long K gen, etc., you should be able
to do whatever you want. THis includes all the preview and rendering
options CM tools give to us.
Assuming a well behaved new Epson driver with equally wise choices
made in it's RGB - CMYK transforms, good RGB profiles may work well also.
In some ways, cm is theoretically the most suited to finding and
building the neutral axis.
Unfortunately, historically this is one of the things it is least good
at. Considering all the remapping it does, and it's primary concern
for color, it's no wonder the neutral axis has suffered. I have to say
though, that the GPS cmyk profiles are remarkably neutral, so things
may be getting better fast.
So all of the above really puts advanced B&W work firmly in the camp
that color has been in for some time.

I think smoother ramps are made with special drivers and
linearization. It makes sense that colors are getting yanked in and
out down the axis with profiles. But with nice smooth ramps, and
toners brought in, it just seems more well behaved by nature without
profile conversions (for hue). The disadvantage is that you don't have
the color managed option's tools of easily finding that axis to set
toner levels, I'm assuming people are finding it with QTR by trial and
error. Single channel output profiles for ramping preferences are a
different issue here.

I still like B&W prints from inksets made for them specifically and
the drivers necessary to run them properly. But the future may bring
us all more into the same world color workers are already in.
Essentially and RGB workflow and good color management.
Horrors!
Tyler