Digital BW, The Print

David and Mark-

I think you are both on the track to sanity<g>.

I remember when the Epson 2000P was first introduced... I was like a 
16 year old thinking about buying a new car... All I could focus on 
was 200 year permanence... This was color, not BW... When I got the 
2000, I was so proud of the 200 year life that I tried to alibi the 
metamerism... But I fought to like it... I'd go back and forth... 
Drove myself nuts... Only one thing to do... Pack up the 2000 and 
sell it on eBay and be done with it.

Now I'm using a 1270 for color and a couple of 1160s for BW. still 
trying to get the perfect quad system... Had a lot of problems using 
piezo inks... They made fabulous prints when the print heads weren't 
clogged, but that was most of the time... Bit the bullet... Tossed 
the piezo carts and I'm presently trying MIS FS (going to install FS 
on a CIS on one of the 1160s) and trying Lyson Small Gamut on the 
other... Not totally pleased with the fairly wild variety of 
responses to toning on the LSG, so when those carts are used up, I 
intend to try Paul's curves on some VM (which I assume I will 
love)... If that works, I'm putting VM on a CIS on the other 1160 and 
then I'll quit fussing with inks and concentrate on printing again... 

This whole quad experience has been exciting... But not as productive 
as it should be... I've made more TEST prints than ART prints 
lately... It's like the world of early PCs... We were so excited that 
we could get them to work that we missed the point that they had to 
DO SOMETHING to be valuable. With quads, we are still focusing on 
getting the OPERATING SYSTEM to work... We haven't begun to refine 
the applications !!!

I guess my position is that I'm enjoying the process, but it's time 
to get back to photography for a while... Stepping back will give me 
a little perspective, too... I'm starting to DREAM about these 
processes!!! And I'm staring at so many test prints that they are all 
going to look alike pretty soon.

I don't want to sound like the doctor who says he doesn't want to 
hear about another cure... He's too confused already <g>, but this 
forum is wrecking my life... I'm no longer at all satisfied with a 
beautiful color photo... I have to be able to turn it into a "carbon-
piezo-hybrid dye pigment inkjet work of art" or I'm not worth spit...

Ahhh... Life on the bleeding edge <g>.

Back to your question... You've said it best: If you don't like the 
print today, who cares if it will last 200 years???

Just my two cents and self analysis...

Tom O'Connell







--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "daschkenas" 
<daschkenas@a...> wrote:
> Mark, I couldn't agree with you more.  I am about to switch back 
> to MIS dyes from MIS pigs.  When I compare the "look" of my b&w 
> & sepia images made with dyes vs. those made with pigs, there 
> is an unbelieveable difference.  For the past several months I've 
> spent about $500. on profiles and wasted an equal amount on 
> paper to try and convince myself that the pigs were getting close.
> An old photographer friend visited a couple of weeks ago, and 
> we did a little show and tell. After he showed me some beautiful 
> work, I shared some of the new pigment prints with him.  Then I 
> got out some prints that were made with dyes a few months 
> ago...It was like the emperors new cloths!  The dye prints were 
> so much richer & smoother and had a 3-D air to them.  Side by 
> side..no contest.
> I ordered a replacement CIS for the 1280 and a new set of MIS 
> dyes this week.
> 25 years is enough for me right now.  Think of all those C prints 
> sold in the 70 & 80's by Meyerowitz and Shore & others, surely 
> they are not going to hold up as well as these.
> Just a few years ago I remember reading on the Nash Edition 
> website, that they were not using the longest lasting inks 
> available, but rather decided to use the inks that gave them the 
> BEST looking print, as that was a more important aspect in the 
> final viewing.
> Hopefully, during the next year someone will come out with a 
> longer lasting dye, but untill then, I guess that I will settle for 
25 to 
> 29 years.
> My 2 cents.
> David Aschkenas