Digital BW, The Print

Hi Walt

There is a new version of QTR Create ICC which does not have the BPC
embedded.  Which one are you using?

The other thing to remember is that colour management is an extremely
finicky thing.  A ton of factors come into play (including ambient lighting,
the accuracy of profiles and settings, the colour of other objects in the
filed of view etc).  For example, are you looking at your prints in a
lighting booth with a controlled colour temperature equal to that used to
profile the monitor and illuminate the ink on paper when creating the
printer profile?  Funnily enough I think things can actually be more
difficult for B&W.  I wonder what goes on with the monitor BPC and the
interaction between the print profile and the monitor profile.  Let's say
your print black point is L*=10 and so is your monitor black point.  If your
are looking at your file (without a soft proof) then the deepest black you
can see is L*=10.  One would think that you already have your soft proof
(ignoring the other factors - gamma and white point - for now) because the
monitor black is as weak as the print, ie that a soft proof would not change
the look of the image on screen at all.  But I wonder if when you ask PS to
soft proof the print it has to show you a simulation of the weaker than
perfect black (according to the selected colour settings).  And hence the
black point gets ratcheted above L*=10 in the simulation.  It shouldn't and
probably doesn't but at times I do wonder because I too find that the
displayed black point in a soft proof for anything printing to matte paper
seems overly light.  BUT I also recognise that I am not looking at my prints
in a lighting booth and most likely my work area lighting is a lot duller
than the D50 standard.

At any rate, I tend to no longer soft proof that much when doing B&W. (I
only take a quick peek at soft proofs for hue which are a whole different
kettle of fish.)  Once you have selected your ink and paper your black and
white points are locked in place.  I find that I can work up an image in
Gray Gamma 2.2 and get it to my satisfaction on screen (so this is a colour
managed representation of the file dependent on my display's capability and
the accuracy of my display profile) and simply print it with the applicable
QTR Create ICC profile (with BPC) and know that the luminance axis has been
scaled properly for the black and white points dictated by my ink/paper
combination.  I just find it works well and as a result my first print at
size is the level of "soft proof" I then need.

PS:  The gamma you select when profiling the monitor does not matter (except
in so far as it is arguably better to use the native gamma of the display so
that the monitor doesn't have to contort so much when chomping on its lookup
tables) - the colour management module takes care of any differences.

Cheers

Steve

100's is not the plural of 100


> From: wwodets <odets@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@...m>
> Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 03:57:48 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] QTR and Create ICC . . .
> 
> I have spent two days with i1 generating and trying various ICC
> profiles created with the QTR Create-ICC.  I've used both the 21 and
> 51 step wedges, and tried the profiles with both Epson 2400
> ABW "darker" and "light" settings.
> 
> What is very impressive is that (using PS color mgmt. with the
> profiles) no matter what the ABW settings the prints are virtually
> identical (used with the correct profile for the ABW setting).  The
> profiles and PS color management are clearly compensating for printer
> and Epson driver "irregularities."
> 
> What is not impressive is that I cannot get anyhing close to a sceen
> match for the prints.  With a monitor calibrated to 5K and 2.2 I have
> been unable to find a workspace profile that even remotely previews
> the print accurately, including the use of the i1/QTR generated
> profiles for "soft proofing."  All the screen views are much lighter
> than the print, and contrastier than the print, and the tonal
> distribution is different.  I can produce a hugely more accurate
> screen view of the print with a PS curve for viewing.
> 
> I am aware from Steve Kale's previous posts of the BPC issue with
> Create-ICC, but the discrepancy I am experiencing seems to go way
> beyond this.  I can't see what I'm not understanding here.  Any
> thoughts about this?
> 
> Thanks,
> Walt
>    
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership
> without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the
> membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
> Moderators. See ³Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines² in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE ³OWNER² AND
> ³MODERATORS² OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL,
> USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  ³OWNER² AND ³MODERATORS² OF
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
> DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW,
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR
> TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
>