Digital BW, The Print

Well, Clayton, I too have a certain background in chemistry. Used to 
earn a living from it once upon a time, long before taking to writing 
and photography and have the letters to prove it.

One thing that both black and white and colour film have in common is 
the triacetate film base, so it makes sense to talk about the two of 
them together. Yes it will degrade slower at lower humidity and 
temperature, but it doesn't stop the process. I've read the many reporst 
that go into fuller detail on temperature and humidity. It is also a 
process that increases in speed once it starts, and once started that 
cannot be reversed.

I mentioned the Thames Valley. Thats where my relatively high humidity 
comes from, and why I have a particular problem. I also have a very 
large negative collection - several hundred thousand negatives and then 
some slides. Too many for any solution I can afford to keep them all in 
suitable conditions. The cheapest solution would be to move to Arizona, 
but I have good reasons for living here.

A second thing that both colour and black and white have in common is 
gelatine, which moulds like to grow on. Also a problem exacerbated by 
our damp conditions here. Moulds can mess up black and white just as 
effectively as colour.

If you care to read the literature you will find the evidence for the 
fact that a certain low level of residual chemicals improves the keeping 
of black and white films. I think this is why the use of a peroxide 
hypo-eliminator (not to be confused with wash aids such as hypo clear) 
is not generally recommended. I suspect it produces some silver sulphide 
on the image which then protects it. As you will know, sulphide toning 
your prints (or negatives) is one of the most effective protective methods.

You would certainly be advised to get rid of that wooden cabinet (or 
just use it for keeping your violins), but I don't think they make them 
big enough for my negative collection in any case.

Scanning to digital gives a greater chance of preserving the information 
on negatives. As you say it also makes sense in that printing from a 
digital file enables us to make better prints.

Regards,

Peter Marshall
petermarshall@...   
_________________________________________________________________
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London's Industrial Heritage: http://petermarshallphotos.co.uk/
The Buildings of London etc:  http://londonphotographs.co.uk/
and elsewhere......



Clayton Price wrote:

>Hi Peter -
>I read the Kodak "Vinegar Syndrome" paper on Tri- Acetate film, and   
>they don't emphasize enough, the word WATER. If negatives are stored in  
>a dry
>atmosphere, they will not degrade very much over time. And having come  
>to this work from an early background and interest in chemistry (since  
>the 7th grade, believe it or not <g>), I am virtually certain that you  
>are incorrect in some of your postulates.
>
>First, you are talking simultaneously (in the same sentence), about  
>film, presumable B&W, and color slides. They are two totally different  
>animals!
>Film must be washed completely, with all traces of hypo, hypo  
>eliminator, and any other chemistry - totally gone. Traces of chemistry  
>on film of any substrate will cause staining and/or bleaching over  
>time. I suppose those traces might  protect against some kinds of mold  
>(because of their altered pH),
>but it wouldn't do much good with a  bleached out negative, caused by  
>incomplete washing.
>
>Secondly, about color slides of all sorts. Virtually all the colors in  
>transparency films, Kodachrome included, are organic dyes, which are  
>susceptible
>to molds.  But what is common to all molds, is moisture.  Even color  
>transparencies, when stored in low humidity, can have remarkable  
>storage lives.
>True, controlled humidity, as most museums have, is expensive, and on a  
>personal note, I lived in Arizona as a kid, and all my B&W negatives  
>are still intact, even though they've been with me for 40 years in NYC.  
>But I've picked the driest, darkest spot in my studio for storage,  
>using an antique oak storage cabinet (which may not be the best,  
>because of out-gasses), but  because wood has a tendency to absorb and  
>release moisture. The negatives within are in archival sleeves) have  
>remained unchanged.   If you doubt this last statement, you might read  
>of why Stradivari stored his violins clipped to a clothes line  
>stretched inside his second floor workshop in a part of Italy which has  
>high humidity in the summer and is dry in winter. They never cracked or  
>got moldy, but of course he washed all the hypo out, then used  
>distilled water for the final rinse :-)
>
>All that said, I'm in a never-ending process of scanning my best work  
>dating back to the 1950's, mostly because for my interpretation, I like  
>the digital rendition of many black & white prints better than the  
>silver versions. That's especially true with the last few years'  
>progress in the process.
>Regards,
>
>Clay Price
>
>  
>
>> Peter Marshall wrote:
>>...Film, especially if washed well, is a very attractive substrate for
>>moulds etc. I think fixer and other chemicals in low concentration are
>>likely to offer some protection, although of course fixer will react
>>with the image to give silver sulphide. Many if not most of my
>>trade-processed slides are suffering irreversible mould damage, and  
>>also
>>quite a lot I processed myself....
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>  Kodak paper on  Vinegar Syndrome:
>>http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/technical/vinegar.jhtml? 
>>id=0.1.4.11.12.4&lc=en
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
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