Digital BW, The Print

Howard,

I am sorry, but your two posts have been nonsense.  My post was about 
DVDs and your response is about CDs.  

I, too, have used the Mitsui "GOLD" (yes, I know the difference 
between silver and gold) CDs without problem.  But their *newly 
released* gold DVDs are defective and it is misleading to encourage 
anyone to rely on them.  I used both Phillips and Sony recorders and 
both Sonic and Nero recording programs, both at various speeds, and 
the Mitsui DVDs showed something like a 75% corruption rate 
regardless.  The same tests with Sony, TDK and Maxell DVDs produced 
perfect results.  So, this has a lot to do with the Mitsui discs.  
Some on this forum, and many others, have recommended the Taiyo Yuden 
DVDs and I will probably go with them.

The usefullness of this forum relies on our speaking up when we 
really know something and otherwise just keeping our mouthes shut.  

Walt


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "how786" 
<how786@...> wrote:
>
> Walt,
>   The quote is entirely accurate. So, I used it. (I have nothing
> whatsoever to do with Mitsui, btw) Mitsui has maintained a VERY high
> level of quality in their Gold CDs for many years.
>  If you are truly using the GOLD Mitsuis, the problem is NOT in 
their
> disks, as you assert, but in your recorder or recording 
methodology. 
> We carefully test and monitor the Gold CDs for our project. I cannot
> speak for their other lines. Very few people pay the significant 
extra
> cost for the Gold line.
> I am involved in an ongoing archiving project for a large company. 
We
> test all our media and media in relation to burning speed. Our 
testing
> equipment has a $25,000 figure base cost. We monitor the media for,
> among other things, BLER. (Block Error Rate)
>  Mitsui has consistently been the best media we have tested for 
quite
> a few years. Of interest, in CDs, right now, their 700 meg CDs have
> fewer errors than their 650 meg CDs. In the past, the opposite was 
the
> case.
> Recording speed will affect the end-product error status so we test
> different recorders at different recording speeds. The very best
> recorders can be used as high as 16X but no higher for archiving
> projects. 8X is safer. (Talking about data CDs here only)
>  Not all recorders have the ability to make good CDs/DVDs. Some
> produce far more errors than others regardless of media quality.
> 
>  Block error Rate (BLER) is defined as the number of data blocks per
> second that have any bad  symbols. BLER is the most general and 
useful
> measurement of the quality of a disc. The Red Book specification 
(IEC
> 908) calls for a maximum BLER of 220 per second averaged over ten
>  seconds. Discs with higher BLERs are likely to produce uncorectable
> errors. Presently, the best   discs have average BLERs below 10. A 
low
> BLER shows that the system as a whole is performing well, and that 
the
> pit geometry is good.
> 
>  Relying on the BLER alone is not advisable, however, although the
> BLER provides information on the number of bad blocks per second, it
> does not indicate the severity of the errors. In  principle, a disc
> with an average BLER of five can be unusable, if all the those 
errors
> are uncorrectable! The error codes described above provide details
> that indicate the severity of the errors and distinguish between
> correctable and uncorrectable errors.
> 
>   Well, I could go on and on, but will stop here. 
> 
> Best Regards
> Howard
> 
> 
> \--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "wwodets"
> <odets@> wrote:
> >
> > Howard-
> > 
> > Your post is verbatim the advertising copy from the MAM-A Inc. 
> > website, the (presumed) manufacturer of the disks with which I 
had an 
> > extremely high rate of data corruption.  
> > 
> > I would not recommend these discs--with the very common Phillips 
> > recorder I used they showed about a 75% corruption rate.  So 
their 
> > logevity is moot.
> > 
> > Walt
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "how786" 
> > <how786@> wrote:
> > >
> > >   I would think that the best DVD media currently available are 
the
> > > new Mitsui Gold  Archive Grade. The reflective layer is 
comprised of
> > > 24 karat gold, which allows maximum resistance to chemical 
breakdown
> > > -- one of the major causes of disc failure. Along with choosing 
the
> > > right recording dye material and bonding agent (Note: A DVD-R 
is 
> > made
> > > of two polycarbonate discs bonded together) the long-term 
stability 
> > of
> > > the reflective layer is crucial. Reflective layers using your 
> > standard
> > > "silver" surface are subject to oxidation (rust) over a long 
period 
> > of
> > > exposure to moisture. Unlike silver jewelry, a gold ring won't 
rust
> > > and neither will the gold reflective layer in this disc. In 
optical
> > > discs, the use of gold can triple the life of a standard disc.
> > > 
> > > Best
> > > Howard
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Rob"
> > > <digitalblackandwhitetheprint@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > He's right Gary. Not all recordable DVDs are created equal. 
None 
> > > > should be considered a long term archival solution. DVD/CDs 
all 
> > > > decay. Their failure rate is quite high. However, if you 
insist 
> > on 
> > > > using DVDs for backup storage, to improve your chances, you 
> > should 
> > > > always uses the highest quality writable media available. For 
> > more 
> > > > information on that, see:
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.best-dvd-burning-software-reviews.com/best-blank-
dvd-
> > > > media.asp
> > > > 
> > > > or (shortened)
> > > > 
> > > > http://tinyurl.com/7lssl
> > > > 
> > > > And if you do decide to use DVD/CD for backups, you should 
always 
> > > > have backups of your backups.
> > > > 
> > > > Rob Greer
> > > > http://www.robgreer.com/
> > > > 
> > > > --- "Gary Brown" <baffin@> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Would you care to elaborate a bit further, where did you 
find 
> > this 
> > > > > information. Its sound very inaccurate (I am trying to be 
> > polite).
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > >> 
> > > > >> >From my current studies I have read the saving onto DVD 
or CD 
> > is 
> > > > a wast of 
> > > > >> >time. They don't last as long as we are >all led to 
believe. 
> > You 
> > > > are better 
> > > > >> >off getting a 200gig drive and saving your images their.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>