Digital BW, The Print

Brian,

I think you are taking my reply out of context. I think it was to 
someone who was considering 35mm film, not large format, and I think it 
is true for most prints from 35mm film. From film - mainly ISO400 for 
the kind of photojournalistic work I mainly do - I was getting good 
prints either direct or from scans up to around 12x8" or slightly 
larger, but above that I could see a loss in quality. Of course I did 
sometimes make larger prints - 24x20" and even on occasion A1 and 
larger, but the grain and loss of sharpness are apparent, though a slow 
film like Tech Pan (sadly no longer) did pretty well. Some of them are 
pretty good prints, either because or in spite of the grain.1

With digital, working from 6Mp, my basic print size without seeing any 
real quality loss went up from 13x9 to 15x10 inches. You have much lower 
noise with digital, but you don't get any more detail. With the D200 I 
hope to push it a little further - really to anything I can print on 
A3+, which is the largest my ink jet printer takes..

When I've worked with 4x5 (or even 6x7 - or 8x10 come to that), then 
I've printed at 20x16 or 24x20, and larger sizes would be possible. In 
fact the only 4x5 work I've had a part in over recent years has been 
scans for repro on A4 covers. I've done these with good results on a 
1200 dpi flatbed, and I don't think the printed results would have been 
any better at a higher res.

Regards,

Peter Marshall
petermarshall@...     
_________________________________________________________________
My London Diary	              http://mylondondiary.co.uk/
London's Industrial Heritage: http://petermarshallphotos.co.uk/
The Buildings of London etc:  http://londonphotographs.co.uk/
and elsewhere......



Brian Ellis wrote:
> "However for new images you will probably get better quality from a
> camera such as the Nikon D200 or Canon 5D rather than film under almost
> all circumstances"
>
> At what print size do you think this is true? I have a 5D and some Canon L 
> lenses due to arrive next week (finally gave up on Nikon) and I'm pretty 
> excited but I'm not expecting to make prints comparable to those made from 
> my 4x5 and 8x10 film scans at any size beyond 11x14  (I'll actually be happy 
> if the 5D is just as good, forget about better, even at just 11x14). The 
> (admittedly few) prints larger than 11x14 that I've seen from the much more 
> expensive Canon Mark II Whateveritscalled were o.k. but certainly not the 
> equal of comparably sized prints I've made and seen others make from a 4x5 
> scan. The only large (over 11x14) prints I've seen from a digital source 
> that can compare with those made from 4x5 scans were done with a digital 
> back on a Mamiya body but that outfit cost $30,000. My 4x5 outfit cost about 
> $4000 and if I wanted to scrimp it could have cost a whole lot less.
>
> There are, of course, many benefits that can be obtained from a high quality 
> digital camera that can't be obtained from 4x5 - mobility, instant feedback, 
> ease of use, speed, etc. - but so far better print quality isn't one of them 
> in my experience .
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Peter Marshall" <petermarshall@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 4:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Scanning 35mm vs digital camera
>
>
>   
>> I think the Epson V750 Pro (due in May) is going to make dedicated film
>> scanners such as the Minolta ones obsolete, giving more or less the same
>> quality as more expensive drum or virtual drum scanners, but with
>> greatly improved ease and speed of use.
>>
>> However for new images you will probably get better quality from a
>> camera such as the Nikon D200 or Canon 5D rather than film under almost
>> all circumstances. And with cheaper models such as the D50 or D70 under
>> most.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Peter Marshall
>> petermarshall@...
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> My London Diary               http://mylondondiary.co.uk/
>> London's Industrial Heritage: http://petermarshallphotos.co.uk/
>> The Buildings of London etc:  http://londonphotographs.co.uk/
>> and elsewhere......
>>
>>
>>
>> Greg wrote:
>>     
>>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Adam Maas
>>> <mykroft@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>       
>>>> PanF and similar can outperform affordable Digital. But if you shoot
>>>> high-ISO digital will provide cleaner images (especially at 3200).
>>>>
>>>> Note that the Scan Dual III and IV only produce around 10MP scans,
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> you
>>>
>>>       
>>>> aren't getting 20+MP of info from them. The 5400 will do better.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> Is KM going to continue making scanners, or did those go the way of
>>> their cameras?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
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> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
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