Digital BW, The Print

Hi Michael,

Do you mean Nicholas Hartmann http://www.nhartmann.com/photography/ who 
is the son of Erich Hartmann who was a fine photojournalist. He also 
mentions Charles Harbutt, whose book Travelog was also an inspiration to 
me (and many years later I did a workshop with him.)

Regards,

Peter

Peter Marshall
petermarshall@...     +44 (0)1784 456474
31 Budebury Rd, STAINES, Middx, TW18 2AZ, UK
_________________________________________________________________
My London Diary	              http://mylondondiary.co.uk/
London's Industrial Heritage: http://petermarshallphotos.co.uk/
The Buildings of London etc:  http://londonphotographs.co.uk/
and elsewhere......



Michael Vendrell wrote:
> Peter et al, Your list is so close to mine as to send
> chills down my spine.  If I had to narrow it down to
> two heroes it would be Andre Kertesz and Edward Weston
> - in no particular order.  Both used tools appropriate
> to their vision and sometimes  experimented.  One of
> Kertesz's last projects was with a Polaroid SX70. 
> Weston used a handheld Graflex SLR 4x5 for more
> spontaneous portraiture.
>
> Not to compare myself but only to "take a lesson" from
> the greats, I too have worked in 8x10 view, Medium
> Format, 35mm, and digital. Artists frequently work in
> "periods" such as Picasso's famous "blue" one.  I seem
> to get out of a "different side of the bed" about
> every decade. I started as a street shooter in 1969; 
> next worked mostly MF interiors, still-lifes, and
> portraits; then 8x10 interiors, still-lifes,
> portraits, and outdoor night work; now have come
> almost full circle, and am doing street and cafe
> shooting once again.  I've had occasion to think about
> all this as I sift through more than 30 years of
> negatives for scanning, Photo-shop work-up, and
> digital printing. And yes, almost all B&W to stay OT.
>
> For nostalgia I like working with former Soviet Leica
> and Contax copies.  But I must say that for actually
> acquiring images - digital is much better in virtually
> all technical aspects for candid street and cafe work.
>  I just need to balance whether my nostalgic feelings
> (e.g imagining I'm Kertesz or Bresson) , or working
> with the tool they would have chosen if available to
> them at the time is more important.  I don't think
> there is much question that the Greats of
> photographing that-which=is-in-motion would have
> chosen digital if it had been available to them.  The
> biggest problem for me is what is frequently touted as
> digital's biggest advantage - immediate feedback. I
> agree with Nick Brandt that the processes of
> expectation (both realized and confounded), and chance
> have always been important for me.   Digital sometimes
> short-circuits this process too quickly.  It's 
> relatively easy for most of us to obtain (again) what
> we or others have already obtained - at least in terms
> of the technical, subject matte,r and overall visual
> intent .  What's hard is to develop ones vision in a
> new way. To learn to see anew. Chance and percolation
> time have been essential in this process for me- and I
> would imagine for many.
>
> If the question is: "Is digital state-of-the-art up to
> the task technically for hand-held work relative to
> 35mm film"  - I believe most would agree there is no
> question about that in 2006. "Can digital  sometime in
> the near-future rival a contact print from an 8x10
> film negative (Weston's and my benchmark) and how near
> is it and how much will it cost" is a more open
> question and much more interesting for me.   As to how
> one best finds the tools and methods that work best
> for them in the evolution of their vision - that is
> something only personal experience (including
> listening and looking at the work of others) can
> answer.
>
> As an aside, while browsing Clayton's site I followed
> a link to the work of Nikolas Hartman.  His vision is
> incredible.  Check-out his site out if you haven't. 
> If you love Kertesz - I think you'll like his work. 
> He happens to work with 35mm RF's and BO printing. But
> that is, of course, just what works for him.
>
> Michael Vendrell  
> --- Peter Marshall <petermarshall@...> wrote:
>
>   
>> I've used 8x10 and I have to say it was never a
>> match for 35mm for most 
>> of the things I wanted to do as a photographer. It
>> depends what you 
>> want. There isn't a single path. My vote for the
>> greatest photographer 
>> of the 20th century would quite probably go either
>> to Andre Kertesz or 
>> Robert Frank or Walker Evans depending which side of
>> the bed I got out 
>> of this morning. Never of course to Ansel, although
>> occasionally to 
>> Edward W. and more often to Bill Brandt.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Peter Marshall
>> petermarshall@...     
>>
>>     
> _________________________________________________________________
>   
>> My London Diary	             
>> http://mylondondiary.co.uk/
>> London's Industrial Heritage:
>> http://petermarshallphotos.co.uk/
>> The Buildings of London etc: 
>> http://londonphotographs.co.uk/
>> and elsewhere......
>>
>>
>>
>> cloudswimmer7774 wrote:
>>     
>>> Man I hear this all the time.Mostly at DPreview
>>>       
>> dot comm.Is digital
>>     
>>> capture really now a match for 8x10 BW film in
>>>       
>> fine art?I live on the
>>     
>>> Calif. coast and frequent quite a few galleries.I
>>>       
>> have yet to see a
>>     
>>> digital captured BW image that drops my jaw like
>>>       
>> Brett's stuff shot
>>     
>>> with his old Calumet C-1, or Ansels large 8x10
>>>       
>> stuff.I'm not totally
>>     
>>> convinced these guys would be capturing with
>>>       
>> digital.
>>     
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>>       
>>>> It's worth something. Not a single one of the
>>>>         
>> photographers you
>>     
>>>> mentioned, if they were in the prime of their
>>>>         
>> career would NOT be
>>     
>>>> shooting digital capture, especially Ansel Adams.
>>>>         
>> He told us himself 
>>     
>>>> decades ago before he died that he wished it was
>>>>         
>> available to him
>>     
>>>> then. It wasn't. 
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the
>>>       
>> Files, and other resources as they are often being
>> updated.
>>     
>>>       
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>   
>>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily
>>>       
>> digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your
>> Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
>>     
>>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of
>>>       
>> earlier messages to keep them short.
>>     
>>> - Good manners are required at all time. No
>>>       
>> personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or
>> argumentative users may be removed from the
>> membership without notice.
>>     
>>> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group
>>>       
>> topic of digital B&W printing. Users who
>> persistently make off-topic posts may be removed
>> from the membership.
>>     
>>> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by
>>>       
>> the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the
>> actions and decisions of the group Owner and
>> Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd
>> in the Files section:
>>     
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>   
>>> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE
>>>       
>> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY
>> UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND
>> \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP
>> SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT,
>> INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
>> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR
>> LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER
>> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND
>> \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP
>> HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
>> DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE
>> INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
>> GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF
>> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR
>> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE
>> PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING
>> TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>>     
>>>  
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>>       
>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files,
>> and other resources as they are often being updated.
>>
>>
>>     
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>   
>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily
>> digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your
>> Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
>>
>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of
>> earlier messages to keep them short.
>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal
>> attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or
>> argumentative users may be removed from the
>> membership without notice.
>> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group
>> topic of digital B&W printing. Users who
>> persistently make off-topic posts may be removed
>> from the membership.
>> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the
>> group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the
>> actions and decisions of the group Owner and
>> Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd
>> in the Files section:
>>
>>     
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>   
>> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE
>> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY
>> UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND
>> \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP
>> SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT,
>> INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
>> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR
>> LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER
>> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND
>> \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP
>> HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
>> DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE
>> INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
>> GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF
>> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR
>> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE
>> PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING
>> TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>>  
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>     
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/
>   
>>    
>>
>>     
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   
>>  
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>