Digital BW, The Print

Chris,

As far as I know Clayton's main reason for converting to grayscale 
mode right after the conversion is disk usage, but I don't want to 
speak for him (just in case I'm wrong).  As far as preparing the 
file for printing, if there are any other disadvantages to waiting 
until the end of the workflow I haven't run in to them.  You're 
right though, keeping the image in RGB allows you to go back at any 
point in the process and tweak the conversion.  

I think for the most part that you can duplicate most things that 
are done in the conversion process afterward using levels or curves, 
but there are times when modifying the relationship between the 
color channels is the best way to go.

Brian
http://www.brianchapmanphotography.com


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "chriskjezp" 
<chriskresser@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you very much, Brian.  
> 
> I'm fairly experienced with B&W conversion methods in PS so I am 
relieved to know that I 
> can continue working in that fashion and change to greyscale just 
before printing.  I like to 
> use Hue/Saturation and Selective Color layers just underneath the 
B&W conversion layer 
> (gradient map, channel mixer or whatever) to gain more control 
over the B&W tones.  
> 
> But is there any disadvantage to working this way?  Clayton Jones 
recommends converting 
> to greyscale directly after doing the B&W conversion of a color 
file and then doing levels, 
> curves, etc. in greyscale mode.  Doing it that way I'd lose out on 
all of the increased 
> control I have over the B&W image using layers that are only 
possible in RGB space.
> 
> Best,
> Chris
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Brian 
Chapman" 
> <brianechapman@> wrote:
> >
> > Chris, 
> > 
> > This tutorial is an excellent introduction to a couple of the 
most 
> > popular methods used to convert an image to black and white.  
> > 
> > http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/color-black-white.htm
> > 
> > Any of these methods can be made more flexible by adding 
> > additional 'conversion' layers (channel mixer, hue layer) and 
using 
> > layer masks to allow only portions of each conversion layer to 
show 
> > through.  Different methods can also be combined.  I am 
currently 
> > writing an article/tutorial describing ways to improve 
flexibility 
> > in some of the methods mentioned in the link (I'll post it here 
when 
> > I'm done).  Email me offline if you want the first draft or have 
any 
> > questions, I'm happy to help.    
> > 
> > In my workflow I choose to convert to grayscale mode just before 
> > printing because I like to work on the image as a black and 
white 
> > RGB image so I can make adjustments to the conversion as well as 
> > other tonal adjustments.  Plus, if you're going to add a toning 
> > layer (maybe for the K3 with color toning) later you'll need to 
> > convert back to RGB to do so.  
> > 
> > Anyway, I know this was slightly off the printing topic but it's 
an 
> > important part of getting good results in print form!
> > 
> > Brian
> > http://www.brianchapmanphotography.com
> > 
> > 
> > --- In 
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "chriskjezp" 
> > <chriskresser@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Clayton & Paul,
> > > 
> > > Thank you so much for your thorough replies.  I'm really much 
> > closer to understanding 
> > > how this works, thanks to your generous help.
> > > 
> > > It sounds like starting with an r220 and a variable tone MIS 
ink 
> > set, along with Paul's ICC 
> > > profiles and toning curves, is a good way to get my feet wet 
and 
> > learn the ropes.  And it 
> > > sounds like this method can produce very good prints.
> > > 
> > > Quick question: I'm assuming I can also use these ICC profiles 
to 
> > do a soft-proof of the 
> > > print in Photoshop.  Is this correct?
> > > 
> > > I guess I'll continue to use my Canon MP800 for heavily 
> > toned/colorized B&W prints until I 
> > > can afford a 2400.  At that point I'll have more flexible 
option, 
> > where I can use RGB/color 
> > > workflow when printing colorized B&Ws and the ABW/greyscale 
(or 
> > QTR RIP) mode when 
> > > I'm printing "classic" and warm/cool toned B&Ws.
> > > 
> > > Thanks again,
> > > Chris
> > > 
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton 
> > Jones" <cj@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello Chris,
> > > > 
> > > > >I've read over most of your webiste Paul, and also all of 
the 
> > > > >articles on Clayton's website. 
> > > > >I'm not at all sure at what point in the B&W conversion 
process 
> > > > >(from my color RAW file) I should convert from RGB to 
> > greyscale.  
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > I just recently revised article #9 (the 2400 workflow) 
> > > > 
> > > >    http://www.cjcom.net/articles/digiprn9.htm
> > > > 
> > > > and added more detail to the section on converting to BW.  
> > Basically
> > > > the first thing is to apply whatever methods you want to 
remove 
> > the
> > > > color while in RGB, and then change to grayscale mode.  At 
this 
> > point
> > > > the image is ready for any levels, curves and other typical 
work 
> > as a
> > > > BW image.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > >Another question that may help me decide on a printer: with 
the 
> > K3 
> > > > >printers (2400 in particular) is it recommended to also use 
a 
> > > > >greyscale workflow for B&W prints, or is it possible to get 
> > good 
> > > > >prints using an RGB workflow and applying any toning in RGB 
> > color 
> > > > >space...
> > > > 
> > > > I think it's possible to get good prints that way, but they 
of 
> > course
> > > > will have a different look and feel.  The ABW mode uses 
> > primarily the
> > > > three blacks with colors added only as toners, so the tones 
are
> > > > limited to a warm/cool range.  If you wanted, for example, a 
gold
> > > > colored tone, or any other hue outside of the grayscale 
warm/cool
> > > > range, then the RGB/color controls approach would be 
required.  
> > When
> > > > making BW prints with ABW there is no advantage to keeping 
the 
> > image
> > > > in RGB.  All you have is images that are three times as 
large.  
> > When
> > > > you switch to grayscale the image becomes 1/3 it's former 
size.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > >How about the 2200 in this regard (though it uses the UC 
inks 
> > > > >rather than K3 and is thus not as "archival")?
> > > > 
> > > > Yes, exactly.  The K3 is much better in that regard.   The 
K3 
> > printers
> > > > are a big step forward in technology over the 2200 (and 
1280, 
> > 220 and
> > > > the rest) for several reasons: better longevity, less 
bronzing 
> > and
> > > > gloss differential on glossy papers, three blacks for much 
> > better BW
> > > > prints, and the driver has essentially what is a built in 
semi-
> > RIP
> > > > with it's ABW system.  ABW uses primarily the three blacks, 
> > adding
> > > > color inks as toners to create the warm/cool tone you 
specify 
> > with the
> > > > controls.  Using a 3rd party RIP with the 2400 (such as QTR) 
> > gives
> > > > even greater control over the inks (for example, eliminating 
the
> > > > Yellow from the toning mix).
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Clayton
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Info on black and white digital printing at    
> > > > http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm
> > > >
> > >
> >
>