Digital BW, The Print

failedthespian wrote:

> 
> I do have a problem with Wilhelm Imaging Research (WIR) stating that so
> and so ink will last X number of years before fading.  We know that
> Lyson's Fotonic ink was accredited by WIR as having a life of 70 years
> and yet in an independent test carried out by Leeds University's
> Department of Colour Chemistry, the magenta and light magenta inks
> failed to get past BWS 2!
> 
> My contention is that many organisations use WIR to give them a level of
> credibility that they often don't deserve.

I wonder where you get the information that Lyson's Fotonic 
ink was accredited by WIR as having a life of 70 years.

The Fotonic dye ink as used in Epson CcMmYK printer models 
failed totally in WIR tests on Hahnem\ufffdhle coatings like used 
on German Etching, PhotoRag. On suitable gelatine gloss papers 
it was somewhat better but nowhere near 70 years. What proved 
to be wrong in Lyson's approach was that they thought they 
could adapt their CMYK dye ink for the Iris inkjet + uncoated 
rag papers to the Epson CcMmYK + inkjet coated papers.  That 
Iris CMYK dye ink on uncoated rag papers (Arches Iris etc) was 
quite fade resistant (with the tests of that time) but not 
waterproof at all.
Everything improved since that time, WIR testing, inkjet inks 
in general, water resistance, but not the Fotonic inks, they 
are as bad as they were >6 years ago. We had them for some 
months in our Epson 9000's and were aware of the fading before 
Wilhelm confirmed our findings. Their PH grade also made 
switching from Epson to Fotonic and to Generations pigment ink 
a risky business.

You probably will still find a fade numbers page on Lyson's 
site that shows the misleading representation of their own 
fade tests (they claim based on WIR testing methods). The 
Fotonic inks are only used in (now old) CMYK printers, the 
Lysonic with the bad gamut in the (now old) CcMmYk printers. 
That and some Lyson generated extrapolations should make them 
acceptable. A competition dye ink by Van Son as used in an 
Epson CcMmYk should add more weight to their numbers. In 
practice that Van Son ink was as bad but worse if used in a 
CcMmYk models, the ones Lyson avoided in teh Fotonic tests.

There was actually quite a discussion between Lyson and WIR 
when the Fotonic test results were published. Not that Lyson 
stopped advertising its claims in Europe, that continued for 
more than a year.

There are better samples you should compare your inks to. 
Tested by Wilhelm or not. Wilhelm has been wrong at some 
point, admitted that and adapted the method. The Fotonic test 
was before that time but it failed already to the old standard.

Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst


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