Digital BW, The Print

HI Clayton,

I am neither happy nor angry with W. I too am behind the idea that those
that rely on his data need to be careful of what it is indicating. 


"Download 9-Page PDF for Epson Stylus Photo R2400
<http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/WIR_Ep_R2400_2005_06_30.pdf> 
and UltraChrome K3 Inks Here "



 

 

This title would seem to indicate from a particular printer and ink. I saw
no other paper mentioned here except Epson papers. And while it may be true
that there would be no indication of a vast array of paper, we all know that
paper, ink combinations are important to lasting qualities. I think that he
should have added to the title, "on Epson papers". There may be a large
number of people that don't venture off this combination for fear that it
will somehow mess up their machine and Epson may even give that impression.
Even here though you said "Several posts recently made reference to Wilhelm
ratings for K3 ink on various papers, but the numbers they quoted were for
color prints.  The numbers for BW prints using ABW mode are much higher. The
ABW numbers are on page 3 of this report for the 2400".

 

All of these various papers are Epsons' paper. I don't consider that too
"various", but rather very selective since they are all Epson papers. 

 

I believe that he certainly has the ability to test the K3 inks on a wider
set of papers than Epson : )  and since those other papers are not in the
tests, what can we conclude?  Well, really nothing. It comes off looking
like a highly paid for Epson ad. And someone really needs to let W know that
that front page is really horrendously layout. I think what we need is a
good ol' horse race here but the speed of motion may make it look a lot like
a snails race or worse. When David puts together the Tuscany Affair, is that
going to happen? He can make arrangments for HP, Canon,  Epson and any other
takers, to put some ink on some VARIOUS papers from the likes of Innova,
Hahnemuhle, Moab, Red River, Lexjet it all their brands or special blends,
etc and have a print off. Year after year the prints get pulled off the
walls, out of the shelves, off the barn walls and inspected by all comers to
see the results. But instead of Tuscany, let's set it up for Wyoming.    

 

Eric

 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

214-827-8301

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

 

Skype : ejprinter

  _____  

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Clayton
Jones
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 4:32 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Wilhelm Ratings for EEM

 

Hello Eric,

>Clayton, The point that comes out of your analysis to me is simple. 
>If you have an ink that you want tested, let W use EEM because we 
>don't care about the paper we just want a good rating and EEM has 
>proven to be a paper that provides a good to excellent bond to 
>prevent fading. And did EEM come out of the Epson product line just 
>to do this? Give W a substrate to use that could hold Epson inks 
>without fading? Or does it show a flaw in his testing methods? 

I don't have an answer to your questions, and I'm not attempting to
pass judgement on his methods. I accept W's reports for what they
are: he has certain methods that he applies and he reports the results
he gets. We are free to accept or reject his findings. Aside from
that, it seems pretty clear to me that he isn't testing papers and
reporting on their archival properties, he's testing inks for fade
resistance. I was just pointing out that it's a mistake to get those
things confused.

>Inks exist for the most part before our eyes as images ON paper and 
>not just as color numbers to be discussed. If the package of ink and 
>paper shows poorly after a short period of time, then all the numbers
>in the world cannot support its continued use without the packaging 
>"For Proofing ONLY". That is unless you like that look and want it 
>to be your image statement. If the substrate changes color what 
>happens to the image area? 

I don't disagree with any of this, but implied in your words seems to
be an expectation that W. should be providing a complete one-stop
archival materials rating service and you are angry and disappointed
that he isn't. I have never gotten the impression from his web site
that he's providing that kind of service (he probably doesn't have a
lab capable of it). 

Regards,
Clayton





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