Digital BW, The Print

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@... wrote:
>
> 
> In a message dated 5/30/07 1:07:51 PM, roy@... writes:
> 
> 
> > The word "color" is everywhere:  ICC -- International Color Consortium, 
> > Color
> > Management, Colorsync, ...  I'm not about to try to coin new names.
> > 
> Agreed. But its necessary to specify that they are grayscale profiles, even 
> if built as RGB.

What more can I say -- this is what I said:

For this reason there is a variation called QTR-Create-ICC-RGB which
 still creates an ICC profile for grayscale printing but uses an RGB ICC format.
 They are NOT color profiles -- they just use the RGB format so that the programs
 that only recognize RGB can use them.
 

> > 
> > Grayscale profiles are not something I defined -- they are defined in the 
> > ICC
> > specification
> > 
> There are a couple of tags listed as required, and a casual suggestion that 
> linearization is all that most grayscale devices would need; there's not a 
> closely defined method. Its an interesting area though...
> 
> >  and implemented in the "Color Management" software packages
> > I'm aware of.  They are however missing from most of the profile making
> > software packages.  Grayscale profiles are the only thing that will work 
> > with
> > for instance the Epson ABW driver.
> > 
> Not at all true. I don't have an Epson K3 printer attached to my computer 
> today, but I just ran the same test on a Canon iPF5000. I sent a PrintFIX PRO 225 
> patch profiling target to the printer's "Monochrome (Photo)" mode, built a 
> (color) profile from the resulting (monochrome) printout, and applied that 
> profile to a standard B&W test image, which I printed to the "Monochrome (Photo)" 
> mode, getting a creamy smooth, beautifully linearized print. 

It sure sounds like you are doing just as QTR-Create-ICC-RGB does -- producing 
an RGB format grayscale profile.  It's not really a color ICC profile because
you can't control color with different R, G and B values.

The reason I don't 
> usually print this way is that it strips all control of color, neutrality, 
> tinting, and cross toning out of my workflow, leaving that all at the whim of 
> the printer driver. If I printed the same target through the color mode, and 
> built a profile from that, I'd still have low metamerism results, but would gain 
> neutralization for my particular paper, control of how the gray ramp related 
> to my paper color, and full color control functions at the same time.

I have no problem with using a color workflow if that's what you want and like.
I just happen to like a grayscale workflow -- I find it advantageous.  It's
different both technically and how you think about it.  If you think in a color
workflow you'll probably see grayscale as a weak substitute, but as B&W
printer I think in a grayscale workflow and see color/RGB issues as the unwanted
complication and in some cases detriment.

As always, to each his own.  There's room for both approaches.

Roy

> 
> >   In other words, if you want to use the ABW
> > Epson driver, and you want screen to print matching without trial and error, 
> > and
> > softproofing the only "Color Management" solution is to use grayscale ICC 
> > profiles.
> > 
> Sorry, can't agree with that; but until I get a K3 printer attached to this 
> system again, I can't retest it either... there may be some difference between 
> the Canon and Epson B&W modes that has slipped past me.
> 
> C. David Tobie
> Product Technology Manager
> ColorVision Business Unit
> Datacolor Inc.
> CDTobie@...
> www.colorvision.com
>