I am definitely going to MIS inks/carts for the 2400, but have a few questions as to how to proceed. Is it better to get the filled cart set then order all the refill tools separately; or, order a "kit." Since they don't include the MK, that will be another item since I mostly (darn near only) print matte B&W. Thanks, Seth _____ From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 06:57 To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Digital BW] Digest Number 5148 HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint;_ylc=X3oDMTJkbjI ydHYxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5MTgyBHNlYwNoZHI Ec2xrA2hwaARzdGltZQMxMTgzODA1ODQ2"Digital BW, The Print Messages In This Digest (9 Messages) 1a. HYPERLINK \l "BM_1a"Re: New Red River Ultrapro Satin 2.0 was RE: Epson Premium Luster From: djon43 1b. HYPERLINK \l "BM_1b"Re: New Red River Ultrapro Satin 2.0 was RE: Epson Premium Luster From: Steven Karafyllakis 2. HYPERLINK \l "BM_2"RC Papers and Curling From: robert49brake 3a. HYPERLINK \l "BM_3a"Re: 3800 B/W From: CDTobie@... 4a. HYPERLINK \l "BM_4a"Re: Epson 1280: New liquid diet, or the landfill? From: Charles Becker 5a. HYPERLINK \l "BM_5a"Paper With OBAs From: Clayton Jones 5b. HYPERLINK \l "BM_5b"Re: Paper With OBAs From: Jim Doyle 6. HYPERLINK \l "BM_6"OT - Printing text causing clogs From: Richard Smallfield 7a. HYPERLINK \l "BM_7a"Heavy or light paper; cheap substitute for Moab natural From: Arthur Fink HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/messages;_ylc=X3 oDMTJmNjQ2bHZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5MTgyBH NlYwNkbXNnBHNsawNhdHBjBHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDY-?xm=1&m=p&tidx=1"View All Topics | HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/post;_ylc=X3oDMT Jmdm85b3FzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5MTgyBHNlYw NkbXNnBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDY-"Create New Topic Messages 1a. HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/86381;_y lc=X3oDMTJycjFjZ3FqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5M TgyBG1zZ0lkAzg2MzgxBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDY-"Re: New Red River Ultrapro Satin 2.0 was RE: Epson Premium Luster Posted by: "djon43" HYPERLINK "mailto:djon43@yahoo.com?Subject= Re%3A%20New%20Red%20River%20Ultrapro%20Satin%202%2E0%20was%20RE%3A%20Epson%2 0Premium%20Luster"djon43@... HYPERLINK "http://profiles.yahoo.com/djon43"djon43 Fri Jul 6, 2007 4:19 am (PST) Steve...I'm confused...are you saying you're using Ultrapro Satin E in some situations? Are you saying their E is NOT stippled or are you using a different Ultrapro surface? More confusion...-are you saying Innova's Ultrasmooth Gloss is an RC paper or are you saying you like it better than RC papers? What printer/ink are you using? Have you compared to Kirkland Glossy? I don't think Kirkland is RC (am I mistaken?). It's certainly among the whitest papers I've used or seen, though not as white as my favored cheap matte, the old Moab Kayenta, which is now being renamed something else and enjoying a price drop. John (sorry for the hyperventillation about E... I do hate that surface almost as much as "canvas," though I realize there's utility... :-) --- In HYPERLINK "mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com"DigitalBlackandWhit-e ThePrint@-yahoogroups.-com, "Steven Karafyllakis" <stevekphoto@-...> wrote: > > --- In HYPERLINK "mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com"DigitalBlackandWhit-e ThePrint@-yahoogroups.-com, "djon43" > <djon43@> wrote: > > > > Why does anyone like "E" surface..which was specifically sold to > labs > > in the beginning as something to please your grandmother and allow > > labs to use cheaper less-well-trained technicians.-..it didn't show > > fingerprints. I remember that intro very clearly, when KODAK rolled > it > > out, followed closely by Ilford's disgusting (!)"Pearl" surface. > > > > Folks learned to love it, much like Paris Hilton, just as they got > > used to film damage by minilabs...now they actively like that > surface, > > and even like RC paper...Red River's quite open about why they're > > selling E. > > > > On the other hand, their N surface RC is CHEAP, which is a big > value. > > Can't imagine it rivals alpha-cellulose matte for beauty, but again, > > some folks do like RC for their own reasons. ECCCH! > > > > John > > > A bit stridently put, but I can understand that point of view > perfectly well. Notice I said 'semi-matte'-, as in no stipple texture, > which is my preference. It makes a great deal of difference what > your final presentation will be, as I'm sure you realize. I've found > that under glass, surface texture is minimized, but a color mismatch > with your matboard is still perfectly obvious, so I'm willing to try > an E surface paper to get a better match. > > My favorite of the PK papers so far is Innova's Ultrasmooth Gloss > which is billed as 'bright white' as well as very glossy. I consider > it neither: it is warmer than most RC papers, and has a very pleasing > soft gloss and texture that is to my eye as close to air-dried fiber > glossy as I will ever need to come. But at 1.80 a sheet I will > reserve it for my higher priced prints. I also have an ongoing need > for cheap prints that will hold up well, though not necessarily to > full archival standards. I'm still searching...-. > > Steven Karafyllakis > > P.S. SOME people may have gotten used to Paris Hilton and her > shenanigans, but don't count me among them!!! > HYPERLINK \l "toc"Back to top HYPERLINK "mailto:djon43@...?Subject=Re%3A%20New%20Red%20River%20Ultrapro%20Sati n%202%2E0%20was%20RE%3A%20Epson%20Premium%20Luster"Reply to sender | HYPERLINK "mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com?Subject= Re%3A%20New%20Red%20River%20Ultrapro%20Satin%202%2E0%20was%20RE%3A%20Epson%2 0Premium%20Luster"Reply to group | HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/post;_ylc=X3oDMT Jyc2tlbWk0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5MTgyBG1zZ0 lkAzg2MzgxBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDY-?act=reply&message Num=86381"Reply via web post HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/86268;_y lc=X3oDMTM3Z3NsaDRlBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5M TgyBG1zZ0lkAzg2MzgxBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDYEdHBjSWQDO DYyNjg-"Messages in this topic (24) 1b. HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/86385;_y lc=X3oDMTJyanQ0MmFlBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5M TgyBG1zZ0lkAzg2Mzg1BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDY-"Re: New Red River Ultrapro Satin 2.0 was RE: Epson Premium Luster Posted by: "Steven Karafyllakis" HYPERLINK "mailto:stevekphoto@...?Subject= Re%3A%20New%20Red%20River%20Ultrapro%20Satin%202%2E0%20was%20RE%3A%20Epson%2 0Premium%20Luster"stevekphoto@... HYPERLINK "http://profiles.yahoo.com/stevekphoto"stevekphoto Fri Jul 6, 2007 1:46 pm (PST) --- In HYPERLINK "mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com"DigitalBlackandWhit-e ThePrint@-yahoogroups.-com, "djon43" <djon43@...> wrote: > > Steve...I'm confused...are you saying you're using Ultrapro Satin E in > some situations? No, I haven't tried the Ultrapro yet in any surface. I'm currently using Lexjet Sunset semi-mat which has almost no texture (which I like) but is too cold, which I don't like. I'm saying, that considering most if not all of my work gets displayed under glass, all other things being (more or less) equal I'm willing to put up with the stipple of an E surface in exchange for a warmer base color that matches matt board better. > > More confusion...-are you saying Innova's Ultrasmooth Gloss is an RC > paper or are you saying you like it better than RC papers? No, of course its not an RC paper, I'm just noting that it has (to my eyes) the most attractive surface of any PK paper, RC or cotton. > > What printer/ink are you using? Have you compared to Kirkland Glossy? An R1800 with MIS K4 inks, and a 3800 with the OEM inks. Yes, I've tried Kirkland, who hasn't at this point? For B&W work it doesn't 'ring my bell' but I use a lot of it to proof my commercial work, with MIS dye inks in an R340. > > I don't think Kirkland is RC (am I mistaken?). Yes, it's an RC, it simply has a thicker cellulose base and thinner resin coating than some, so it feels less 'plasticky' > It's certainly among > the whitest papers I've used or seen, though not as white as my > favored cheap matte, the old Moab Kayenta, which is now being renamed > something else and enjoying a price drop. That bright-white is exactly what I'm trying to get away from, or at least the bluish bright-white of RC with excessive OBAs. We'll see how it turns out with the Ultrapro-who knows, maybe they have a semi- matte or soft gloss in the pipeline at Red River. Steven Karafyllakis HYPERLINK \l "toc"Back to top HYPERLINK "mailto:stevekphoto@...?Subject=Re%3A%20New%20Red%20River%20Ultrap ro%20Satin%202%2E0%20was%20RE%3A%20Epson%20Premium%20Luster"Reply to sender | HYPERLINK "mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com?Subject= Re%3A%20New%20Red%20River%20Ultrapro%20Satin%202%2E0%20was%20RE%3A%20Epson%2 0Premium%20Luster"Reply to group | HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/post;_ylc=X3oDMT JyYzNoYmZvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5MTgyBG1zZ0 lkAzg2Mzg1BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDY-?act=reply&message Num=86385"Reply via web post HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/86268;_y lc=X3oDMTM3ZDcwZnFpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5M TgyBG1zZ0lkAzg2Mzg1BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDYEdHBjSWQDO DYyNjg-"Messages in this topic (24) 2. HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/86382;_y lc=X3oDMTJydmRmZDQzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5M TgyBG1zZ0lkAzg2MzgyBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDY-"RC Papers and Curling Posted by: "robert49brake" HYPERLINK "mailto:robert49brake@...?Subject= Re%3ARC%20Papers%20and%20Curling"robert49brake@... HYPERLINK "http://profiles.yahoo.com/robert49brake"robert49brake Fri Jul 6, 2007 5:31 am (PST) Following the recent posts on luster papers. Any one have any reports of curling (on the narrow bias as opposed to roll curling) on the various RC papers. I use a pair of R220s and have varying degrees of problems with curling on the short bias and the printhead catching the final corners near the end of the prints. Epson PG is fine, Crane silver rag is acceptable with a slight bending back of the corners before feeding. Ilford S Pearl is terrible with a 50% failure rate even with severe bending back. With the Ilford I can only print 5x7s successfully by centering on 8.5x11 paper and I have a couple of 8x10 runs I need to do. I need a pearl coating to finish a B&W restoration project and I'd like a luster finish for some color work and as a possible alternative sometimes to silver rag (i'm looking for a surface smoother than silver rag) With the luster finish I'll accept low OBAs and minimal acid but I'm leery of ordering a whole box and then finding the curling problem makes it unusable. Thanks in advance. HYPERLINK \l "toc"Back to top HYPERLINK "mailto:robert49brake@...?Subject=Re%3ARC%20Papers%20and%20Curling"Rep ly to sender | HYPERLINK "mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com?Subject= Re%3ARC%20Papers%20and%20Curling"Reply to group | HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/post;_ylc=X3oDMT JyZGN0bHNyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5MTgyBG1zZ0 lkAzg2MzgyBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDY-?act=reply&message Num=86382"Reply via web post HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/86382;_y lc=X3oDMTM3NTRhdW1xBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5M TgyBG1zZ0lkAzg2MzgyBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDYEdHBjSWQDO DYzODI-"Messages in this topic (1) 3a. HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/86383;_y lc=X3oDMTJya3FzbGMyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5M TgyBG1zZ0lkAzg2MzgzBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDY-"Re: 3800 B/W Posted by: "CDTobie@..." HYPERLINK "mailto:CDTobie@...?Subject= Re%3A%203800%20B%2FW"CDTobie@... HYPERLINK "http://profiles.yahoo.com/cdtobie"cdtobie Fri Jul 6, 2007 7:08 am (PST) In a message dated 7/5/07 5:28:40 PM, HYPERLINK "mailto:ColinJConway%40aol.com"ColinJConway@-aol.com writes: > Wee you aware of this and, if so, have you been able to replicate the > alleged problem? > The 3800 lays down more ink than other X800 models, and can create blotchiness on matte art papers. Its an issue of choosing media settings that avoid excess ink laydown, while still striving for max blacks; or one can choose media that do not show a visible mottling from the extra ink. I've seen this effect on more than one matte art paper. C. David Tobie Product Technology Manager ColorVision Business Unit Datacolor Inc. HYPERLINK "mailto:CDTobie%40colorvision.com"CDTobie@colorvision-.com www.colorvision.-com ************-*********-*********-******** See what's free at HYPERLINK "http://www.aol.com."http://www.aol.-com. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] HYPERLINK \l "toc"Back to top HYPERLINK "mailto:CDTobie@...?Subject=Re%3A%203800%20B%2FW"Reply to sender | HYPERLINK "mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com?Subject= Re%3A%203800%20B%2FW"Reply to group | HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/post;_ylc=X3oDMT JybHEwZHY3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5MTgyBG1zZ0 lkAzg2MzgzBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDY-?act=reply&message Num=86383"Reply via web post HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/86277;_y lc=X3oDMTM3bHVoampiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5M TgyBG1zZ0lkAzg2MzgzBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDYEdHBjSWQDO DYyNzc-"Messages in this topic (18) 4a. HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/86384;_y lc=X3oDMTJyaXU2bmpnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5M TgyBG1zZ0lkAzg2Mzg0BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDY-"Re: Epson 1280: New liquid diet, or the landfill? Posted by: "Charles Becker" HYPERLINK "mailto:gypyjunior@...?Subject= Re%3A%20Epson%201280%3A%20%20New%20liquid%20diet%2C%20or%20the%20landfill%3F "gypyjunior@... HYPERLINK "http://profiles.yahoo.com/gypyjunior"gypyjunior Fri Jul 6, 2007 9:45 am (PST) Pull the plug. "Peter A. Klein" <HYPERLINK "mailto:pklein%402alpha.net"pklein@2alpha.-net> wrote: I've mentioned before on the list that I've had troubles with my Epson 1280 with MIS Ultratone 2 carts. I've now had several instances where I changed cartridges, and either the greytone distribution or the "tint" of the prints changed. A while back, my Roarke curves workflow, which had worked for 2 years, just stopped working. Gray tones were skewed or missing. Both with the Epson driver and with QTR, which eliminates driver problems. Well, it just happened again. This time I changed to a new grayscale cart, and my "neutral" workflow (EZ Slider method) turned distinctly bluish. Changing the sliders to the "warm" settings does little to change this. And there are no clogs. Every nozzle check I print comes out fine, but the prints come out bluish. The Sepia ink prints out lighter than it should on the Purge Pattern 6 file (compared to an earlier cart's printout of the same file). I should also mention that when I print a Black-Only print, I get slight to moderate banding. But if I print the same image twice in a row, the banding will be in different places. It's possible it's the cart, but I'm coming to the conclusion that it's my printer. Unless MIS has much worse quality control than their reputation, it's just happened too many times for it to have been MIS' fault every time. So here's my question: If it is indeed the printer that's the problem, what are the chances that the problem would go away if I went back to the dye inks the printer was designed for? In other words, supposed I went back to color dye inks on the 1280, and switched to UT-R2 grayscale inks in my R200? If it worked, I could delay buying a 3800 for a while, and my finances would thank me. If it didn't work, I'm out a hundred bucks of ink and some more frustration. If there's a good chance that my problems are some long-term consequence of using pigment inks in a printer designed for dyes, I might chance the color/BW switch. If it's more likely that my 1280 is just slowly dying, maybe it's time to pull the plug. --Peter ------------------------------------ Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] HYPERLINK \l "toc"Back to top HYPERLINK "mailto:gypyjunior@...?Subject=Re%3A%20Epson%201280%3A%20%20New%20liqu id%20diet%2C%20or%20the%20landfill%3F"Reply to sender | HYPERLINK "mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com?Subject= Re%3A%20Epson%201280%3A%20%20New%20liquid%20diet%2C%20or%20the%20landfill%3F "Reply to group | HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/post;_ylc=X3oDMT JybjIwbnUyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5MTgyBG1zZ0 lkAzg2Mzg0BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDY-?act=reply&message Num=86384"Reply via web post HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/86377;_y lc=X3oDMTM3dHJnaWU5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5M TgyBG1zZ0lkAzg2Mzg0BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDYEdHBjSWQDO DYzNzc-"Messages in this topic (3) 5a. HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/86386;_y lc=X3oDMTJybHA2dmkyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5M TgyBG1zZ0lkAzg2Mzg2BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDY-"Paper With OBAs Posted by: "Clayton Jones" HYPERLINK "mailto:cj@...?Subject= Re%3APaper%20With%20OBAs"cj@... HYPERLINK "http://profiles.yahoo.com/cj81846"cj81846 Fri Jul 6, 2007 7:11 pm (PST) Hello All, A big problem with these kinds of discussions is that there are so many broad assumptions underlying the questions and statements. For example, there is the assumption that "OBAs make paper whiter", and from that we get "all papers with OBAs will yellow with time". In fact, neither of these is necessarily true. There are different kinds of OBAs and they can have different effects and different longevity. HPR has OBAs in the coating but it is not a white paper. It's bright, but not white. "White" and "bright" are not the same thing. Diana York of Hawk Mtn Paper has stated (at least once in this forum and several times during phone conversations with me when I was researching my "Great Paper Chase" article) that for their white papers they use a paper base that is already white to begin with and doesn't need additional whitening. Indeed, from my own experience with Condor BW (very bright and white), when I compared a fresh sheet with a print that had been hanging here unprotected for over a year, I could tell that it had lost a bit of brightness, but had not yellowed. In addition, there are different kinds of coatings. Some are clear and the color we see is the paper color, and some are opaque and what we see is the coating color. All of these things affect what kinds of OBAs are used, if any. So there are issues of how much OBA is used, what type, and whether it's in the paper, the coating, or both. Hahnemuhle has stated that the amount of OBAs in HPR (in the coating only) is very small. I've compared fresh HPR sheets with prints that are several years old, and like Condor, are slightly less bright but not more yellow. When I was researching the article I had a number of phone conversations and email correspondence with several paper vendors about various subjects, including OBAs. It's too much to repeat here, but a summary of it (including a complete statement from Diana York) can be read in more detail in the Paper Chase article (#5 at the link below - go to the Contents and look for the link to the OBA section). Further, (this seems to need repeating now and then), I've got darkroom prints from 20 years ago on papers such as Oriental Seagull that are alpha cellulose OBA papers that are still very bright and very white. The point of all this is that it's a mistake to assume that OBAs are always a kiss of doom and that all OBA containing papers will yellow, even ones that are truly white papers. I know this makes everything less convenient, but each paper needs to be evaluated individually. Regards, Clayton Info on black and white digital printing at HYPERLINK "http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm"http://www.cjcom.-net/digiprnarts.-htm HYPERLINK \l "toc"Back to top HYPERLINK "mailto:cj@...?Subject=Re%3APaper%20With%20OBAs"Reply to sender | HYPERLINK "mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com?Subject= Re%3APaper%20With%20OBAs"Reply to group | HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/post;_ylc=X3oDMT JyNDFxMTAwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5MTgyBG1zZ0 lkAzg2Mzg2BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDY-?act=reply&message Num=86386"Reply via web post HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/86268;_y lc=X3oDMTM3dDd0cTkyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5M TgyBG1zZ0lkAzg2Mzg2BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDYEdHBjSWQDO DYyNjg-"Messages in this topic (24) 5b. HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/86387;_y lc=X3oDMTJyOHYyNjIzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5M TgyBG1zZ0lkAzg2Mzg3BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDY-"Re: Paper With OBAs Posted by: "Jim Doyle" HYPERLINK "mailto:jdoyle1713@...?Subject= Re%3A%20Paper%20With%20OBAs"jdoyle1713@... HYPERLINK "http://profiles.yahoo.com/jdoyle1713"jdoyle1713 Fri Jul 6, 2007 8:56 pm (PST) Nice Job Clayton!!! Actually now that technology has grown ( Hahnemuhle Has 10 Yr Old technology and Its still the standard) New Coatings and bases are being developed all the time.. The Latest That I Understand is the they are putting pigment into the pulp or Cotton ( Base) to make it whiter and its suppose to have even longer longevity than OBA�s.. So Its changinging everday just stay foucesed on the paper quality and Image and use Henry�s Guidline.. It�s the best we have.. For sure Cheers Jim Doyle Shades Of Paper 600 Deer Rd Unit 4 Cherry Hill NJ 08034 856-795-7780 HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://www.shadesofpaper.com/"http://www.shadesof-paper.com/"www.shadesofpa per.-com _____ From: HYPERLINK "mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com"DigitalBlackandWhit-e ThePrint@-yahoogroups.-com [mailto:HYPERLINK "mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com"DigitalBlackandWhit-e ThePrint@-yahoogroups.-com] On Behalf Of Clayton Jones Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 10:11 PM To: HYPERLINK "mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com"DigitalBlackandWhit-e ThePrint@-yahoogroups.-com Subject: [Digital BW] Paper With OBAs Hello All, A big problem with these kinds of discussions is that there are so many broad assumptions underlying the questions and statements. For example, there is the assumption that "OBAs make paper whiter", and from that we get "all papers with OBAs will yellow with time". In fact, neither of these is necessarily true. There are different kinds of OBAs and they can have different effects and different longevity. HPR has OBAs in the coating but it is not a white paper. It's bright, but not white. "White" and "bright" are not the same thing. Diana York of Hawk Mtn Paper has stated (at least once in this forum and several times during phone conversations with me when I was researching my "Great Paper Chase" article) that for their white papers they use a paper base that is already white to begin with and doesn't need additional whitening. Indeed, from my own experience with Condor BW (very bright and white), when I compared a fresh sheet with a print that had been hanging here unprotected for over a year, I could tell that it had lost a bit of brightness, but had not yellowed. In addition, there are different kinds of coatings. Some are clear and the color we see is the paper color, and some are opaque and what we see is the coating color. All of these things affect what kinds of OBAs are used, if any. So there are issues of how much OBA is used, what type, and whether it's in the paper, the coating, or both. Hahnemuhle has stated that the amount of OBAs in HPR (in the coating only) is very small. I've compared fresh HPR sheets with prints that are several years old, and like Condor, are slightly less bright but not more yellow. When I was researching the article I had a number of phone conversations and email correspondence with several paper vendors about various subjects, including OBAs. It's too much to repeat here, but a summary of it (including a complete statement from Diana York) can be read in more detail in the Paper Chase article (#5 at the link below - go to the Contents and look for the link to the OBA section). Further, (this seems to need repeating now and then), I've got darkroom prints from 20 years ago on papers such as Oriental Seagull that are alpha cellulose OBA papers that are still very bright and very white. The point of all this is that it's a mistake to assume that OBAs are always a kiss of doom and that all OBA containing papers will yellow, even ones that are truly white papers. I know this makes everything less convenient, but each paper needs to be evaluated individually. Regards, Clayton Info on black and white digital printing at HYPERLINK "HYPERLINK "http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm"http://www.cjcom.-net/digiprnarts.-htm "HYPERLINK "http://www.cjcom.-net/digiprnarts.-htm"http://www.cjcom.--net/digiprnarts-. -htm No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.1/888 - Release Date: 7/6/2007 6:36 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.1/888 - Release Date: 7/6/2007 6:36 AM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] HYPERLINK \l "toc"Back to top HYPERLINK "mailto:jdoyle1713@...?Subject=Re%3A%20Paper%20With%20OBAs"Reply to sender | HYPERLINK "mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com?Subject= Re%3A%20Paper%20With%20OBAs"Reply to group | HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/post;_ylc=X3oDMT JybjZzMGVyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5MTgyBG1zZ0 lkAzg2Mzg3BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDY-?act=reply&message Num=86387"Reply via web post HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/86268;_y lc=X3oDMTM3aGcwZ3N1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5M TgyBG1zZ0lkAzg2Mzg3BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDYEdHBjSWQDO DYyNjg-"Messages in this topic (24) 6. HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/86388;_y lc=X3oDMTJydTQwM3NzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5M TgyBG1zZ0lkAzg2Mzg4BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDY-"OT - Printing text causing clogs Posted by: "Richard Smallfield" HYPERLINK "mailto:r.smallfield@paradise.net.nz?Subject= Re%3AOT%20-%20Printing%20text%20causing%20clogs"r.smallfield@... HYPERLINK "http://profiles.yahoo.com/rich.s"rich.s Sat Jul 7, 2007 1:06 am (PST) Hi, I'm finding that printing text in fast black only mode on my Epson 2100 is causing repeated clogging - so I'm wasting ink doing cleaning cycles before printing photos. Does anyone have advice about how to avoid this? I wondered if doing text on slow speed might help. thanks, Richard -- HYPERLINK "http://smallfield.vze.com"http://smallfield.-vze.com HYPERLINK "http://photos.smallfield.vze.com"http://photos.-smallfield.-vze.com (Photos web site) HYPERLINK "http://warkworth.vze.com/"http://warkworth.-vze.com/ (Warkworth photo essay) HYPERLINK "http://picasaweb.google.com/rsmallfield/"http://picasaweb.-google.com/-rsma llfield/ (Recent work) "Nearly all men can stand adveristy, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." --Abraham Lincoln HYPERLINK \l "toc"Back to top HYPERLINK "mailto:r.smallfield@...?Subject=Re%3AOT%20-%20Printing%20text%2 0causing%20clogs"Reply to sender | HYPERLINK "mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com?Subject= Re%3AOT%20-%20Printing%20text%20causing%20clogs"Reply to group | HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/post;_ylc=X3oDMT JyaDhocWc2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5MTgyBG1zZ0 lkAzg2Mzg4BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDY-?act=reply&message Num=86388"Reply via web post HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/86388;_y lc=X3oDMTM3OWJrcWs4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5M TgyBG1zZ0lkAzg2Mzg4BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDYEdHBjSWQDO DYzODg-"Messages in this topic (1) 7a. HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/86389;_y lc=X3oDMTJycnVzYWNtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5M TgyBG1zZ0lkAzg2Mzg5BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDY-"Heavy or light paper; cheap substitute for Moab natural Posted by: "Arthur Fink" HYPERLINK "mailto:af@...?Subject= Re%3AHeavy%20or%20light%20paper%3B%20cheap%20substitute%20for%20Moab%20natur al"af@... HYPERLINK "http://profiles.yahoo.com/arthurjfink"arthurjfink Sat Jul 7, 2007 3:09 am (PST) I've almost settled on Moab Entrada Natural as my paper of choice. But that still leaves me with a question of heavy (300) or light (190). I'm interested in your preferences. If I were selling loose prints, just in clear bags without any mat or backing, then using heavy paper would make sense. But I'm not. Heavy paper takes longer to uncurl from the rolls, but seems to lie flatter. The 190 seems to bubble up a little. From my experience, the printing characteristics of the two papers appear to be identical. - - - Another question: Is there another very inexpensive natural paper (no OBA), with roughly the same look and feel of the Entrada? I'm thinking of using it for cards and some other uses ... not as a proofing paper (so it doesn't need to be identical). Thanks much, Arthur Fink A r t h u r . F i n k . P h o t o g r a p h y ------------------------------------------------------ Ten New Island Avenue . land 207.766.5722 Peaks Island, Maine 04108 . cell 207.615.5722 www.arthurfinkphoto-.com . HYPERLINK "mailto:af%40arthurfinkphoto.com"af@arthurfinkphoto.-com More dance images www.f64gallery.-com/arthur.-html HYPERLINK \l "toc"Back to top HYPERLINK "mailto:af@...?Subject=Re%3AHeavy%20or%20light%20paper%3B%20 cheap%20substitute%20for%20Moab%20natural"Reply to sender | HYPERLINK "mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com?Subject= Re%3AHeavy%20or%20light%20paper%3B%20cheap%20substitute%20for%20Moab%20natur al"Reply to group | HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/post;_ylc=X3oDMT JyOGRncmtkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5MTgyBG1zZ0 lkAzg2Mzg5BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDY-?act=reply&message Num=86389"Reply via web post HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/86268;_y lc=X3oDMTM3N2FhZnNnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5M TgyBG1zZ0lkAzg2Mzg5BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDYEdHBjSWQDO DYyNjg-"Messages in this topic (24) Recent Activity * 12 HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/members;_ylc=X3o DMTJmbGxwaTBtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5MTgyBHN lYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDY-"New Members HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYWV zdTc5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5MTgyBHNlYwN2dGw Ec2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTE4MzgwNTg0Ng--"Visit Your Group SPONSORED LINKS * HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads;_ylc=X3oDMTJjODJuNnFiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BF9wAzEEZ 3JwSWQDMzcwMjMxMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwMTkxODIEc2VjA3NsbW9kBHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4N DY-?t=ms&k=Fine+art+photography&w1=Fine+art+photography&w2=Digital+photograp hy&w3=Digital+photography+print&w4=Digital+photography+technique&w5=Fine+art +photography+print&c=5&s=149&g=3&.sig=B9lPnQmqh3zwrtRKtx6fEw"Fine art photography * HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads;_ylc=X3oDMTJjcTdpM2xwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BF9wAzIEZ 3JwSWQDMzcwMjMxMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwMTkxODIEc2VjA3NsbW9kBHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4N DY-?t=ms&k=Digital+photography&w1=Fine+art+photography&w2=Digital+photograph y&w3=Digital+photography+print&w4=Digital+photography+technique&w5=Fine+art+ photography+print&c=5&s=149&g=3&.sig=hA0OaT0U-R9aHq-FegLIfg"Digital photography * HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads;_ylc=X3oDMTJjMmVuZTF0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BF9wAzMEZ 3JwSWQDMzcwMjMxMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwMTkxODIEc2VjA3NsbW9kBHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4N DY-?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+print&w1=Fine+art+photography&w2=Digital+phot ography&w3=Digital+photography+print&w4=Digital+photography+technique&w5=Fin e+art+photography+print&c=5&s=149&g=3&.sig=D5TtbYUY5s83MpvLARTbwg"Digital photography print * HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads;_ylc=X3oDMTJjdTlmZGc5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BF9wAzQEZ 3JwSWQDMzcwMjMxMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwMTkxODIEc2VjA3NsbW9kBHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4N DY-?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+technique&w1=Fine+art+photography&w2=Digital+ photography&w3=Digital+photography+print&w4=Digital+photography+technique&w5 =Fine+art+photography+print&c=5&s=149&g=3&.sig=bcq8EtJAxAO38RF9j9ZBpg"Digita l photography technique * HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/gads;_ylc=X3oDMTJjbXZ1azZ0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BF9wAzUEZ 3JwSWQDMzcwMjMxMQRncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwMTkxODIEc2VjA3NsbW9kBHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4N DY-?t=ms&k=Fine+art+photography+print&w1=Fine+art+photography&w2=Digital+pho tography&w3=Digital+photography+print&w4=Digital+photography+technique&w5=Fi ne+art+photography+print&c=5&s=149&g=3&.sig=k-ta1fgR3fgebohCxowxcg"Fine art photography print Yahoo! News HYPERLINK "http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12jtmq01p/M=493064.10729659.11333350.8674578/D= groups/S=1705019182:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1183813046/A=3848614/R=0/SIG=12t4qk00m/*h ttp://news.yahoo.com/i/757;_ylt=A9FJqYzfwK5EFCQAswis0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3NW1oMD RpBHNlYwM3NTc-"Odd News You won't believe it, but it's true Yahoo! TV HYPERLINK "http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12jk9gl68/M=493064.10729663.11333354.8674578/D= groups/S=1705019182:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1183813046/A=3848429/R=0/SIG=10lh6opha/*h ttp://9.yahoo.com/""The 9" Daily count down of top Web finds. Yahoo! Finance HYPERLINK "http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12jnc2cv2/M=493064.10729649.11333340.8674578/D= groups/S=1705019182:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1183813046/A=4507179/R=0/SIG=12de4rskk/*h ttp://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=50284/*http://finance.yahoo.com/personal-finance"I t's Now Personal Guides, news, advice & more. Need to Reply? Click one of the "Reply" links to respond to a specific message in the Daily Digest. HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/post;_ylc=X3oDMT JlZmJhY2w1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5MTgyBHNlYw NmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE4MzgwNTg0Ng--"Create New Topic | HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint;_ylc=X3oDMTJjYzR 0OXRxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5MTgyBHNlYwNmdHI Ec2xrA2hwBHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDY-"Visit Your Group on the Web HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/messages;_ylc=X3 oDMTJlZjFiazI2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5MTgyBH NlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTE4MzgwNTg0Ng--"Messages Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated. HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint"http://groups.ya hoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. Please follow these basic guidelines: - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice. - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership. - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files section: HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/"http://gr oups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/ BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP. HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkbGp1MzI2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3M DIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5MTgyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMTgzODA1ODQ2" Yahoo! Groups HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/join;_ylc=X3oDMT JmZTNucGloBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5MTgyBHNlYw NmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExODM4MDU4NDY-"Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: HYPERLINK "mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-normal@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email Delivery: Indiviual Email"Switch delivery to Individual | HYPERLINK "mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Cha nge Delivery Format: Traditional"Switch format to Traditional HYPERLINK "http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint;_ylc=X3oDMTJkYW1 rZWlqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzM3MDIzMTEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDE5MTgyBHNlYwNmdHI Ec2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTgzODA1ODQ2"Visit Your Group | HYPERLINK "http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/"Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | HYPERLINK "mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Uns ubscribe"Unsubscribe HYPERLINK "http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359715/grpId=3702311/grpspId=1705019182/msgId =5148/stime=1183805846/nc1=3848614/nc2=3848429/nc3=4507179" No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.1/888 - Release Date: 7/6/2007 06:36 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.1/888 - Release Date: 7/6/2007 06:36 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Message
2400 MIS inks--the least expensive/best way??
2007-07-07 by Seth