Digital BW, The Print

on 2/8/02 9:08 PM, SKID Photography wrote:

> SKID Photography wrote:
> 
>> Todd Flashner wrote:
>> 
>>> on 2/8/02 3:55 PM, SKID Photography wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I beg to differ.
>>>> 
>>>> To be academically correct (like from a museum and informative standpoint)
>> they
>>>> are inkjet prints using 'carbon pigment' (or whatever) inks.
>>>> 
>>>> To use any other term is a marketing ploy.  And that's ok if you recognize
>> the
>>>> difference. :-)
>>> 
>>> Not sure I agree with that. When I look at photos in museums and galleries I
>> 
>>> see tags like: "Toned Silver Gelatin Print", or "Chromogenic Print". This
>>> refers to the materials solely, much as Carbon Pigment inks on Rag Paper
>> does.
>>> 
>>> The traditional equivalent of what you propose might be: "Enlarged Toned
>>> Silver Gelatin Print", or "Contact Print, Toned Silver Gelatin".
>>> 
>>> The latter are terms one might see in some places, but when they are
>>> represented more simply, as in the former instance, which in my experience
>>> is most of the time, I've not heard it referred to as a marketing ploy.
>>> 
>>> Todd
>> 
>> I guess the Brooklyn Museum of Art in NYC, who had one of the defining shows
>> on
>> Digital imagery last summer is wrong.  ;-)
>> 
>> The reason there is no mention of 'photography' or 'enlargement' with a
>> 'toned
>> 
>> silver gelatin print' is that it is understood to be a photograph.  'Oil on
>> canvas' or 'Oil on Paper' does not mention the word painting because it's
>> understood.  If someone got oil paints to go through an inkjet printer, it
>> would
>> not be labeled 'oil on paper'.
>> 
>> Say what you like, academically, what we do here are 'inkjet prints' using
>> various different inks.  In the marketplace, where 'marketing' comes into
>> play,
>> all bets are off.
>> 
>> Harvey Ferdschneider
>> partner, SKID Photography, NYC
> 
> In thinking about this further, another analogy:
> 'Silver gelatin print', 'Inkjet Print', 'Chromogenic Print', Platinum Print'
> etc. describes a process.

Um, no. Those are materials with a process assumed.
 
> 'Chlorobromide print' is a material, 'Bromide print' (both types of 'silver
> gelatin prints') are adjectives (as is 'Selenium toned').

Hmm, well I don't know my particles of grammar so well, but I think
Chlorobromide and Bromide are a sub-set of materials under silver gelatin.
Selenium is primarily a material in this context in that the process of
toning isn't important, it's the "archival" relevance as a material in the
process that is.

> Carbon Pigment Print is an adjective to Inkjet Print (process).

I suppose it falls somewhere between
> 
> "Carbon Pigment inks on Rag Paper " could describe many processes...Etching,
> gravure, silk screen (serigraphy), stone lithography, photo offset lithography
> etc.

It's true, but as mike pointed out, if you put Photograph, Carbon Pigment
Inks on Rag Paper" what is the assumption?

Plus each of THOSE above labels could equally be subcategorized with
materials additionally articulated too, but when they're not it's not
considered to be a marketing ploy. It's just the short hand of convention,
and we've yet to establish convention for our field.
 
> The point of the labels is to inform and educate not obfuscate.

I totally agree, AND I'm not opposed to the inkjet label on my prints. But
that's me.

What I'm taking issue with is the assertion that anything less is a ploy
aimed to deceive (which in some cases it may be).

Look, it works both ways. Which seems more like the marketing ploy, A) 3.5
liter, 345 Horsepower, Turbo charged 6 cylinder engine, AWD, anti-sway bar,
MoonRoof. Or, B) Car.

Todd


> 
> Harvey Ferdschneider
> partner, SKID Photography
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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