Digital BW, The Print

Hi Tom, yes that's right. Got it. Compression is a given.
No doubt, local contrast is reduced, some would say far too much. The
art comes later..
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Baker
<tbaker1328@...> wrote:
>
> True.  But, if you really did capture 18 stops on film, the process
of converting to digital will necessarily compress the tonal range. 
Meaning you are giving up some tonal separation to the compression. 
So, it would seem that it would be better to design your
exposure/film/developing so that you get the best image on film.  One
would have better control over that in the analog process than in the,
probably, linear compression that the conversion to digital would
impose.  I suppose, however, that you could apply curves in the
scanning step to offer some control of where the digital compression
would take place.
>  
> It's the same problem one would have when trying to print a negative
with 18 stops, or even 12, in the darkroom.  Just different media.
>  
> Tom Baker
> 
> --- On Tue, 10/7/08, Tyler Boley <tyler@...> wrote:
> 
> From: Tyler Boley <tyler@...>
> Subject: Subject Brightness Range - branch from [Digital BW] Re:
Getting reasonable scan
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, October 7, 2008, 2:31 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes that's right, and I have seen Steve's prints as well. I don't
> shoot interiors like Steve, but often back lit landscapes or other
> difficult SBR. Whether or not a acanner can capture a wide film
> density range has nothing to to with bit depth. Bit depth pertains to
> how many levels between the extremes are described, not the extremes
> themselves.
> 
> Many film developer combinations can handle extreme scene ranges. Then
> the issue is exposing and processing into a range your scanner can
> capture, usually not hard with negs. Once there, you could scan in 8
> bit or 16 bit and get it all. After that the bit depth choice has to
> do with process loss, editing, drivers, etc...
> Tyler
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhit eThePrint@ yahoogroups. com, "David
Whistance"
> <david.whistance@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > I'm not sure where this comes from. 16 bits of data gives 2 to the
> power of
> > 16 shades of grey, ie 65,536 of them. Should be plenty to divide by 17
> > stops, particularly as the relationship between a stop and a set of
> shades
> > of grey is arbitrary - you can map them how you like with either the
> scanner
> > software or Photoshop. What does surprise me is that Steve gets
> this from
> > an Epson V700, however I've seen some of his images and he does
> undoubtedly
> > capture a very large SBR with detail at both ends so I'm sure he's
> right.
> > 
> > David Whistance
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DigitalBlackandWhit eThePrint@ yahoogroups. com
> > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhit eThePrint@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf
Of Tom
> > Baker
> > Sent: 07 October 2008 22:04
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhit eThePrint@ yahoogroups. com
> > Subject: RE: Subject Brightness Range - branch from [Digital BW] Re:
> > Getting reasonable scan file sizes w/ MF & LF ...
> > 
> > 
> > But, anything over 16 can't be represented in a 16 bit tiff file.
> > 
> > TB
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Tue, 10/7/08, Steve Gledhill <stephengledhill@ ...> wrote:
> > 
> > From: Steve Gledhill <stephengledhill@ ...>
> > Subject: RE: Subject Brightness Range - branch from [Digital BW] Re:
> Getting
> > reasonable scan file sizes w/ MF & LF ...
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhit eThePrint@ yahoogroups. com
> > Date: Tuesday, October 7, 2008, 1:31 PM
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Dana,
> > 
> > Not many images have that range â€" but lately I’ve been
> photographing in
> > cathedrals where the deep interior shadows through to the sunlit
stained
> > glass windows certainly have that challenge. So ... yes, I really do.
> > 
> > Steve Gledhill
> > 
> > www.virtuallygrey. co.uk <http://www.virtuall ygrey.co. uk/>
> > 
> > From: DigitalBlackandWhit eThePrint@ yahoogroups. com
> > [mailto:DigitalBlac kandWhit eThePrint@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf
> Of Dana
> > H. Myers
> > Sent: 07 October 2008 21:21
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhit eThePrint@ yahoogroups. com
> > Subject: Re: Subject Brightness Range - branch from [Digital BW] Re:
> Getting
> > reasonable scan file sizes w/ MF & LF ...
> > 
> > Steve Gledhill wrote:
> > > The next step requires the scanner to be able to scan high
> > > density negatives â€" or more specifically, areas of high density
> â€" the
> > > highlights. My Epson V700 does that for me. The scanner captures the
> > > whole range from clear film base to the maximum density of the
> negative
> > > and represents it in the TIFF file as a full range 16-bit greyscale
> > > scan. So the huge SBR in the original scene is ‘compressed’
> (via my
> > > workflow) into the range my paper is capable of â€" i.e. maximum
> ink black
> > > to paper white.
> > 
> > Do you really capture 17-stops of range using a 16-bit TIFF?
> > 
> > Dana
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > 
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> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > 
> > 
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