Digital BW, The Print

Aardenberg's tests of Image Specialist inks in a few printers should
give some comfort regarding the fading of Eboni MK- unlike the color
inks it proved quite stable.

It is too bad MIS or Inkrepublic won't pick up the tab for Wilhelm's
tests, or for Epson to do it as they may have as part of a comparison
of third party dye inks and papers (which clearly discredited these
inferior products).


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pr_roark"
<pr_roark@...> wrote:
>
>  "Paul Whiting" <paulmwhiting@> wrote:
> 
> > > It is easy to keep in suspension -- a defect with the Eboni-based 
> > > inksets.
> > 
> > I didn't know this...
> 
> Nor did I -- thus the centrifuge to, hopefully, not get caught this 
> way again.  The range of Lab L changes in a 30 minute spin range from 
> 0.03 % (HP-C6 LK [30% dilution]) to 30% (guess -- choke).
> 
> > does that mean we should agitate the cartridges
> > from time to time?
> 
> Yes.  In normal use, desktop printers keep the dilute Eboni (both 
> Eboni-6 and Carbon-6) well suspended.  However, if the carts are 
> sitting on a shelf, they should be agitated, probably weekly.
> 
> > I use refillable cartridges and a friend tells me
> > that their back and forth motion at start-up serves 
> > to agitate them.
> 
> Exactly.  It's the wide format printers that are the more likely 
> problem area.  I do still have Eboni-6 in my 7500, but the carts 
> require manual agitation.  In all my PDFs I stopped recommending 
> these inksets for wide format as soon as I discovered the problem.
> 
> > I know that with CIS you can shake the bottles occasionally.
> 
> Yes, and the problem really didn't show up in the 2200 I had with 
> Carbon-6 for 9 months.  I agitated the bottles occasionally, and the 
> carts do have ink in them that gets agitated.  So, the fluctuations 
> in density appear to get averaged out.
> 
> It does not appear that the "settlement" is causing significant 
> agglomerations of Eboni, it just gets darker at the bottom and 
> lighter at the top.
> 
> Note that I'm still a big fan of Eboni MK.  I probably will never be 
> able to test it long enough, but I would not at all be surprised if 
> it could beat the HP neutral grays in a fade test.  The HP PK and 
> grays are, after all, blended carbon-colol pigment inks.  The things 
> HP has done, however, that I was not able to do with third party 
> inks, include using very lightfast colors, balancing the fade rates 
> to avoid tonal shift (see a discussion of my early efforts at 
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/messag
> e/58048), and advanced pigment suspension via a new coating that 
> stops the different types of pigments from stratifying.  
> 
> So, it looks like we have a new and superior PKN.  But, I still 
> believe a good carbon that can actually print neutral without color 
> inks (i.e., Eboni with a 1.5 pl printer and not diluted) will be a 
> better neutral matte inkset.  But, until Epson makes a 1.5 pl wide 
> format printer, I need a more stable insket for the 7500 (I'm tired 
> of picking up the 7500 and shaking it), and I think many will 
> appreciate an advanced, neutral and affordable inkset for their 
> Epsons. 
> 
>  
> 
> > 
> > I've been in touch with the National Register of Historic Places
> > lately, and sent them a few 3MK prints on Moab Lasal done on 
> > my R1800. It's tough to keep a dialogue going, they're rather 
> > busy, but they do seem interested.
> 
> Do they do their own testing?
> 
> > After studying Wilhelm's site, I see he approves of
> > the R1800 with K3 ...
> 
> Do you have a URL for what you're looking at?  I assumed he just 
> tested the 1800 with OEM color inks in it.
> 
> > ...doesn't
> > the K3 process, although carbon-based, still use some color pigment
> > inks, thus weakening their longevity over against pure carbon?
> 
> The 2400 3K B&W "ABW" mode prints definitely use color.  I don't know 
> of a 3K 1800 approach aside from the 3-MK one using Eboni, and I know 
> of no fade tests of that by any commercial testing group.
> 
> > My basic thinking is that since carbon-based 3MK, with touches of
> > color pigment, easily meet Register standards then pure carbon 
> > should be a no-brainer.
> 
> Yes.  I'm curious where the "3MK, with touches of color" is coming 
> from.
> 
> 
> > I wish there were some way to get the 3MK process on 
> > Wilhelm's charts.
> 
> So do I.  I've never had any significant contact with him.  My 
> impression is that his tests are just too expensive for little 
> outfits like MIS.  (It's a shame the supplier hasn't picked up this 
> ball -- hint.)
>  
> > I'll be interested to see how your HP work develops. Perhaps that
> > process will eventually make Wilhelm's list.
> 
> While I am convinced Wilhelm is very reputable and a very good 
> person, I don't think he's a charity.  It would be great if he'd do 
> some "pro bono" work, but I've never seen any indication of this with 
> respect to the inks we use. 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>