Digital BW, The Print

Hi,

I am extremely happy with the output from the lightjet for color work 
and was wondering if anyone had experience with making BW lightjet 
prints?  

Here are a couple of links describing the technology:
     http://www.cymbolic.com/products/lightjet5000.html 
         and the newer
     http://www.cymbolic.com/lightjet430.html

Thanks, 
Mark
http://www.interwalk.com/pinhole.htm

I've got to figure the media would need to be chromogenic (c-print) or RC BW
at best.

Todd

> Hi,
> 
> I am extremely happy with the output from the lightjet for color work
> and was wondering if anyone had experience with making BW lightjet
> prints?  
> 
> Here are a couple of links describing the technology:
> http://www.cymbolic.com/products/lightjet5000.html
> and the newer
> http://www.cymbolic.com/lightjet430.html
> 
> Thanks, 
> Mark
> http://www.interwalk.com/pinhole.htm

Before I got my inkjet printers set up with pig inks,
I used to output on lightjet machines.  I did a couple
of b&w prints with satisfactory results(I was
suprised).  
 As much as they might hate it, you need to be active
in your print's creation.  I had them do a couple of
prints before I found the tone to be accurate.  I also
took in a proof I had created on my 1270 with the old
japanese OEM inks, which used to make pretty good
(neutral) b&w prints before they reformulated the
inks.
You also might want to ask when was the last time they
changed out the chemicals in the machine.  This could
effect the neutrality of the final print.  
 If you've had lightjet prints made already, I'm sure
you're familiar with the routine.
 good luck,

  Daniel Perez


--- interrante <interrante@...> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am extremely happy with the output from the
> lightjet for color work 
> and was wondering if anyone had experience with
> making BW lightjet 
> prints?  
> 
> Here are a couple of links describing the
> technology:
>     
> http://www.cymbolic.com/products/lightjet5000.html 
>          and the newer
>      http://www.cymbolic.com/lightjet430.html
> 
> Thanks, 
> Mark
> http://www.interwalk.com/pinhole.htm
> 

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Yes, at AIPAD a few weeks ago in NYC. They were prints by David 
Fokos, who is well-known in the digital to silver circles.

I had inquired two years ago about doing BW on a LightJet and was 
rather discouraged by the responses I got. However, the prints I saw 
a few weeks ago were stunning. I read the print info card on the wall 
and couldn't believe that it was a chomogenic C-print. I think a lot 
had to do with the fact that they were from large (8x10 I think) 
negatives. The tone was neutral and they were on the matte surface 
paper. Looked almost like Kodak Elite the way the light reflected off 
it. I was very impressed and would now have to reconsider it as an 
option for digital output.

Richard M. Coda
www.rcodaphotography.com

They are beautiful...

trish

they are printed on Fuji Crystal

t

I caught a recent seminar by Jean Miele in Atlanta. He had on exhibit 
many BW lightjet prints, large format landscapes, and discussed his 
processes and workflow. Even with suspect lighting (the glare in the 
museum was terrible) his Fuji Lightjet prints were stunning. 
Heres a link to his site for those who are curious. Just mouse over 
to the right side. 

http://www.theblackandwhitesite.com/

Bary Gilliand
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., ternahan <ternahan@s...> 
wrote:

> They are beautiful...
> 
> trish

Sorry to be so late to contribute to this thread.
For months I have tested two labs in LA to try and
print the B&W on Lightjet and Lambda.
Here at the studio, we need fairly large prints 24x30
to 30x40 which are very cumbersome to print on fiber
base paper. We tested two labs in LA for months : one
equipped with a Lambda printer with Kodak paper and
one with a Lightjet printer with Fuji Crystal.
At this point I could not tell you if it is the
quality of the operator or the printer or the paper
but the combination Lightjet and Fuji Crystal done by
A&I was by far better. The Lambda prints were very
flat and I like deep blacks as you can see on my
website.
We now routinely use the Lightjet at A&I and  we have
worked out a good workflow which is as following: we
send the digital file with an Epson print to show the
lab where we want the highlights and A&I sends back to
us a 14x18 test print  from our digital file and we
work on the tone of that test print, just like with we
would with color print, that is  put it under the Just
ceiling lightbox and use our set of Kodak viewing
filters. We then give them the correction (e.g. +05
Yellow) and they interpret it to adjust the file
accordingly for the final print.
When the final print comes back to us, we mount it on
archival board, put a very fine texture to it with
special plates to break up the RC smooth look. We than
lacquer the print with a light coat of SureGuard
lacquer. 
And frankly it looks beautiful; it took us months of
testing back and forth with A&I, who has been quite
patient with us and very helpful along that process.
The other beauty of this is that we can retouch the
faces as much as the clients want in Photoshop which
is impossible to do on a conventional print. 

Beno\ufffdt
http://studiocharis.com



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Benoit,

This sounds really wonderful. I wish I could see an example.

A couple of questions. What is your cost for getting to that first 24x30
print and the cost of additional prints?

Where did you get the texturing plate you mention? Or did you have custom
made? How is it used?

Thanks,

Martin Wesley

----- Original Message -----
From: "Benoit" <benoitml@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Anyone built/seen a BW lightjet?


> Sorry to be so late to contribute to this thread.
> For months I have tested two labs in LA to try and
> print the B&W on Lightjet and Lambda.
> Here at the studio, we need fairly large prints 24x30
> to 30x40 which are very cumbersome to print on fiber
> base paper. We tested two labs in LA for months : one
> equipped with a Lambda printer with Kodak paper and
> one with a Lightjet printer with Fuji Crystal.
> At this point I could not tell you if it is the
> quality of the operator or the printer or the paper
> but the combination Lightjet and Fuji Crystal done by
> A&I was by far better. The Lambda prints were very
> flat and I like deep blacks as you can see on my
> website.

(snip earlier)

Hi Martin, 
To answer your post: <cost for getting to that first 24x30 print and 
the cost of additional prints?
Where did you get the texturing plate you mention? Or did you have 
custom made? How is it used?>

As many of us are finding out, the digital solution is not cheaper: 
60 MB scan $30 + 24x30 print $125, without computing the time on 
Pshop. But for me it is a great solution to offer clients all the 
retouching they need to have done, and also to have big prints made 
without too much trouble. Btw, these prints are made at 150dpi on the 
Lightjet (the tests on the Lambda were at 200 dpi).

Re the texturing plates, I have inherited with the studio some old 
plates and an old metal press. That part works great! 
I believe Coda rep here (Linda Britton at 760.944.0346) sells new 
ones and you sandwich the plate with the print and put it trough the 
rollers of their cold-mount press. I do not know of a place where you 
can get them custom made. Maybe someone on the list does?
Let me know if you have any other question on this.
Benoît
http://studiocharis.com

My understanding is that the Durst Lambda prints on normal photographic paper, whether color or B&W. I had a large (about 23x38") made on Kodak Panalure paper at a place in Arlington, VA. Unfortunately, I cannot the remember the name of the shop.

--Mitch/Paris

Benoit - Are the 24 x 30 b&w Lightjet prints you're having made at the 
lab really output at 150 dpi, or are you starting with a file of that 
size and letting the lab use the Lightjet's interpolating software upsize 
the file??  If it is the former, do they look decent up close at that 
number??

Stephen

Stephen,
Here is what I found out :
- At the scanning stage, the resolution depends on the size of the 
original, if the original is going to be cropped, the size of the 
output. The scans are usually done with the scale % set at 100 %. E.g 
the last scan I ordered was made at 2000dpi.
- For the output, they are printed at 150dpi or 300dpi. I let the lab 
decide.
These prints look more than decent up close, I would not let anything 
go out of my studio that would not look a lot more than decent (at 
least on the tech part!)
Let me know if you have other questions
Benoît
http://studiocharis.com



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Stephen Petegorsky 
<petegorsky@e...> wrote:
> Benoit - Are the 24 x 30 b&w Lightjet prints you're having made at 
the 
> lab really output at 150 dpi, or are you starting with a file of 
that 
> size and letting the lab use the Lightjet's interpolating software 
upsize 
> the file??  If it is the former, do they look decent up close at 
that 

> number??
> 
> Stephen