Digital BW, The Print

I really need help from this group as I am close to tossing this 3800 into a wood chipper.
About a year and a half ago I purchased a new Stylus Pro 3800, some hextone inks from OVI and a set of then just-released refillable cartridges from Inkjetmall.

I first set up the printer with factory inks and ran a bunch of prints until one of the cartridges ran out. All the prints were perfect. Nothing wrong with the printer. At that point I swapped out the OEM color inks for the IJM cartridges filled with the hextone inks.

This is when my problems started. (To date, I have never gotten a single B&W print out of this expensive boondoggle.) Attempting to run test pages for calibration, I kept getting worse and worse results. Pages were missing big chunks of printing and nozzle checks kept getting worse. The more I cleaned and checked, the worse things got.

Throw in a heart attack and an inconsiderate landlord who forced me to move within weeks of said heart attack and here I am a year+ later trying to tackle this problem all over again and the frustration level is high to say the least.

The printer has been collecting dust for a year. Dried ink is not a surprise I guess, but this one seems to be dried all the way back to the factory.

Here is what I have done:

1. Removed all the ink and filled all the cartridges with Windex.
2. Buffed the underside of the printhead with paper towel and windex until even the shoe shine boy said "that's enough!!"
3. Run nozzle checks, Auto nozzle checks (I believe this cleans and checks) and power cleanings until I have changed out the maintenance tank three times.
4. Filled the sponges with Windex and parked the head on them overnight twice.

Here is what I notice:

1. Some of the lines from the cartridges to the print head are still filled with ink even after all that cleaning.
2. Some lines appear to be filled with Windex.
3. The maintenance cartridge has very little ink/Windex in it when it needs to be changed.
4. The line for the MK/Ebony ink appeared to have air in it but nonetheless, it appeared to be the only one that ink was actually flowing through. (Before swapping Windex for ink, that was the only ink that printed on a nozzle check. However, previous attempts months ago showed that ink printing poorly!
5. After all that cleaning and rain dancing, the levels of Windex in the cartridges remain at the full line. 

Based on my very limited knowledge, the head is thoroughly blocked and I need a nuclear solution to that problem.

However, these problems all started before the printer sat for a year and have only grown worse.

I have found little of use searching the internet. I did see where some printhead clogs have been solved by forcing Windex or hot water through the print head from the ink cartridge insertion point. However, this doesn't look possible with the 3800. If anyone knows a way it can be done, please advise.

HELP! Please! Anybody. How can I get this printer on its feet and working?

David,
I suggest you go to the Yahoo epson printer group:
 (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSON_Printers/
and look for posts by Art Entlich.  He has Epson printer cleaning manuals that he will email to you but you have to email him directly outside of the group.  It shouldn't be too hard to find a post by him where he gives his email address.  If I recall correctly he has manuals for both the desktop and the large format printers.  Be sure to let him know it is a 3800, since it sounds like the 3800 is a desktop (more or less) size unit with large format ink lines.
Art's cleaning fluid includes isopropyl alcohol as well as Windex.  He recommends using no more than an eye dropper (not a syringe) to inject cleaning fluid into the ink nipples, but discourages the practice except as a last resort (just before you throw the 3800 into the wood chipper).
Another suggestion is to go back to the OEM carts since that is the last time the printer worked OK.  Perhaps make cleaning carts out of the OEM carts.  I'm suggesting this because you indicate that when you started using the IJM carts is when your problems started.  Also, try emailing John Cone at IJM.  He seems to be very supportive of his products and may be able to help.
Mike Brubaker

--- On Wed, 6/1/11, davidkachel <david@davidkachel.com> wrote:

From: davidkachel <david@...>
Subject: [Digital BW] Epson 3800 and B&W inks headache
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, June 1, 2011, 5:05 PM















 
 



  


    
      
      
      I really need help from this group as I am close to tossing this 3800 into a wood chipper.

About a year and a half ago I purchased a new Stylus Pro 3800, some hextone inks from OVI and a set of then just-released refillable cartridges from Inkjetmall.



I first set up the printer with factory inks and ran a bunch of prints until one of the cartridges ran out. All the prints were perfect. Nothing wrong with the printer. At that point I swapped out the OEM color inks for the IJM cartridges filled with the hextone inks.



This is when my problems started. (To date, I have never gotten a single B&W print out of this expensive boondoggle.) Attempting to run test pages for calibration, I kept getting worse and worse results. Pages were missing big chunks of printing and nozzle checks kept getting worse. The more I cleaned and checked, the worse things got.



Throw in a heart attack and an inconsiderate landlord who forced me to move within weeks of said heart attack and here I am a year+ later trying to tackle this problem all over again and the frustration level is high to say the least.



The printer has been collecting dust for a year. Dried ink is not a surprise I guess, but this one seems to be dried all the way back to the factory.



Here is what I have done:



1. Removed all the ink and filled all the cartridges with Windex.

2. Buffed the underside of the printhead with paper towel and windex until even the shoe shine boy said "that's enough!!"

3. Run nozzle checks, Auto nozzle checks (I believe this cleans and checks) and power cleanings until I have changed out the maintenance tank three times.

4. Filled the sponges with Windex and parked the head on them overnight twice.



Here is what I notice:



1. Some of the lines from the cartridges to the print head are still filled with ink even after all that cleaning.

2. Some lines appear to be filled with Windex.

3. The maintenance cartridge has very little ink/Windex in it when it needs to be changed.

4. The line for the MK/Ebony ink appeared to have air in it but nonetheless, it appeared to be the only one that ink was actually flowing through. (Before swapping Windex for ink, that was the only ink that printed on a nozzle check. However, previous attempts months ago showed that ink printing poorly!

5. After all that cleaning and rain dancing, the levels of Windex in the cartridges remain at the full line. 



Based on my very limited knowledge, the head is thoroughly blocked and I need a nuclear solution to that problem.



However, these problems all started before the printer sat for a year and have only grown worse.



I have found little of use searching the internet. I did see where some printhead clogs have been solved by forcing Windex or hot water through the print head from the ink cartridge insertion point. However, this doesn't look possible with the 3800. If anyone knows a way it can be done, please advise.



HELP! Please! Anybody. How can I get this printer on its feet and working?





    
     

    
    


 



  










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

David,


I too set up a 3800 about a year ago  with the Inkjetmall refillable  
carts.  Mostly to run K7 Peizography inksets.  initially I had  
problems with some of the channels not having all of the nozzles  
clearing.   Before i could even lodge a complaint to Inkjetmall  they  
contacted me and said they were replacing my enitre cart set with a  
newer generation.  They said the original set that I was given had  
known issues.  After replacing with the new set they sent all of the  
channels cleared and have gotten perfect nozzle checks ever since.   
Printer has run very smoothly since.  I did mention to them that I  
could visually see any difference with the new set.   They said I  
wouldn't ,  that the changes were internal and would not be  
appearant.   The replacements were no charge.,  they never asked for  
the old set back.

Cheers,
Mark
On Jun 1, 2011, at 2:05 PM, davidkachel wrote:

> I really need help from this group as I am close to tossing this  
> 3800 into a wood chipper.
> About a year and a half ago I purchased a new Stylus Pro 3800, some  
> hextone inks from OVI and a set of then just-released refillable  
> cartridges from Inkjetmall.
>
> I first set up the printer with factory inks and ran a bunch of  
> prints until one of the cartridges ran out. All the prints were  
> perfect. Nothing wrong with the printer. At that point I swapped  
> out the OEM color inks for the IJM cartridges filled with the  
> hextone inks.
>
> This is when my problems started. (To date, I have never gotten a  
> single B&W print out of this expensive boondoggle.) Attempting to  
> run test pages for calibration, I kept getting worse and worse  
> results. Pages were missing big chunks of printing and nozzle  
> checks kept getting worse. The more I cleaned and checked, the  
> worse things got.
>
> Throw in a heart attack and an inconsiderate landlord who forced me  
> to move within weeks of said heart attack and here I am a year+  
> later trying to tackle this problem all over again and the  
> frustration level is high to say the least.
>
> The printer has been collecting dust for a year. Dried ink is not a  
> surprise I guess, but this one seems to be dried all the way back  
> to the factory.
>
> Here is what I have done:
>
> 1. Removed all the ink and filled all the cartridges with Windex.
> 2. Buffed the underside of the printhead with paper towel and  
> windex until even the shoe shine boy said "that's enough!!"
> 3. Run nozzle checks, Auto nozzle checks (I believe this cleans and  
> checks) and power cleanings until I have changed out the  
> maintenance tank three times.
> 4. Filled the sponges with Windex and parked the head on them  
> overnight twice.
>
> Here is what I notice:
>
> 1. Some of the lines from the cartridges to the print head are  
> still filled with ink even after all that cleaning.
> 2. Some lines appear to be filled with Windex.
> 3. The maintenance cartridge has very little ink/Windex in it when  
> it needs to be changed.
> 4. The line for the MK/Ebony ink appeared to have air in it but  
> nonetheless, it appeared to be the only one that ink was actually  
> flowing through. (Before swapping Windex for ink, that was the only  
> ink that printed on a nozzle check. However, previous attempts  
> months ago showed that ink printing poorly!
> 5. After all that cleaning and rain dancing, the levels of Windex  
> in the cartridges remain at the full line.
>
> Based on my very limited knowledge, the head is thoroughly blocked  
> and I need a nuclear solution to that problem.
>
> However, these problems all started before the printer sat for a  
> year and have only grown worse.
>
> I have found little of use searching the internet. I did see where  
> some printhead clogs have been solved by forcing Windex or hot  
> water through the print head from the ink cartridge insertion  
> point. However, this doesn't look possible with the 3800. If anyone  
> knows a way it can be done, please advise.
>
> HELP! Please! Anybody. How can I get this printer on its feet and  
> working?
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>>

>I too set up a 3800 about a year ago  with the Inkjetmall refillable
>carts.  Mostly to run K7 Peizography inksets.  initially I had
>problems with some of the channels not having all of the nozzles
>clearing.   Before i could even lodge a complaint to Inkjetmall  they
>contacted me and said they were replacing my enitre cart set with a
>newer generation.  They said the original set that I was given had
>known issues.  After replacing with the new set they sent all of the
>channels cleared and have gotten perfect nozzle checks ever since.
>Printer has run very smoothly since.  I did mention to them that I
>could visually see any difference with the new set.   They said I
>wouldn't ,  that the changes were internal and would not be
>appearant.   The replacements were no charge.,  they never asked for
>the old set back.

I don't dare wish it could be something that simple!


David Kachel

___________________

Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs

www.davidkachel.com
david@...

Gallery:
www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
director@...

PO Box  1893
Alpine, TX 79831
(432) 386-5787

David,

The nozzles are not blocked. The symptoms you cite point to one simple and
relatively easily corrected fact: The cleaning assembly is not doing its
job. In your case it'll be helpful to understand the basics so you don't
jump to false conclusions:  There are two rectangular affairs (capping
stations) with rubber rims that are intended to create a seal with the head
plate when the head is in its parked position and when ink is drawn through
for cleaning. This provides at least two vital functions: Keeping the
nozzles sealed from air, and more important to your issue, providing a seal
so that the (vacuum) pump can pull ink through the nozzles to keep them
clean and flushed of old ink/dust. If ink is not being pulled through during
a cleaning cycle then air will not be displaced, fresh ink will not replace
the old, and the nozzles will soon fire blanks. The printer will do
precisely what you describe. 

The capping stations are spring-loaded and "float" so they can self-adjust
and seal against the head when they get pushed upward. By their nature,
either or both of the caps can be knocked askew with a finger or tool. In
that case the cap will remain cock-eyed and will fail to seal against the
head, making ink pumping impossible. If that's the cause, it's not difficult
to push down on the caps so that they "snap" back into the right position -
and nothing to lose by trying. 

There are two soft white tubes (aka: vas deferens) that run from the pump to
the underside of the capping stations. If a tube comes loose then no suction
- and not something easily accessed and fixed although there's no harm in
trying. There are roller bearings, the tubing that the bearings squeeze, and
other little pump parts that can fail over time, not to mention the motor
itself. The latter is not the case because the gears wouldn't turn and the
head wouldn't lock, creating error codes.

The good news is that the pump assembly lives immediately above the waste
tank and is easily replaced by a technician. Since it's a combination
capping station/pump/head wiper/ink discharge, head lock, and gear transfer,
it takes care of almost all wearable parts in the 3800/3880. Once you get to
it, it pops out by removing a couple screws and the electrical connector. I
replaced one about three months ago and it's a marvel of functionality and
compactness. It takes the place of at least three parts in the large format
printers. The part is about $65 so I'll guess it might cost around $150-$200
to be shipped and repaired. It would need to be done at some point if you
kept the printer long enough. The head and other critical parts should last
a long time. 

So that's it. It has nothing to do, nor could have been caused by inks,
ammonia, carts, black & white, color, or Windex. 

Good luck.

Tom

 

Here is what I notice:

1. Some of the lines from the cartridges to the print head are still filled
with ink even after all that cleaning.
2. Some lines appear to be filled with Windex.
3. The maintenance cartridge has very little ink/Windex in it when it needs
to be changed.
4. The line for the MK/Ebony ink appeared to have air in it but nonetheless,
it appeared to be the only one that ink was actually flowing through.
(Before swapping Windex for ink, that was the only ink that printed on a
nozzle check. However, previous attempts months ago showed that ink printing
poorly!
5. After all that cleaning and rain dancing, the levels of Windex in the
cartridges remain at the full line. 






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>> There are two soft white tubes (aka: vas deferens)

Now Tom, 

That's not fair at all! Here I am judiciously trying to absorb what you are
telling me when you distract me and cause me to fall out of my chair
laughing! Anatomy jokes! Shame on ya'.   ;-)

And just when I was participating in a discussion of "Giclee" on another
list. Good timing.



David Kachel

___________________

Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs

www.davidkachel.com
david@...

Gallery:
www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
director@...

PO Box  1893
Alpine, TX 79831
(432) 386-5787




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

UpdateŠ

OK, I took the printer to the carwash andŠ

Kidding aside. Yesterday I noticed (remember all my cartridges are now
filled with Windex) that the LB position cartridge was not draining at all
with all the cleaning.

I swapped chips and positions with the PK cartridge to see if the LB
cartridge was defective. The newly replaced cartridge in the LB position now
drains just fine and this morning I am getting nozzle checks with only a
couple of little line segments missing. I am assuming this will straighten
itself out after the lines fill more completely with ink and everything
settles down. In any case this is the best I've had since I first tried to
set up the system.

So all this trouble lasting well over a year was due to a defective
cartridge that would not pressurize.


David Kachel

___________________

Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs

www.davidkachel.com
david@davidkachel.com

Gallery:
www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
director@reddoorfinephotographs.com

PO Box  1893
Alpine, TX 79831
(432) 386-5787




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

David,
                                     
Again, please be careful about jumping to conclusions. From the information
you provided, the cleaning/capping station is not functioning and nothing
will work correctly until it does. 
 

If the printer's air pressure pump/lines/and carts do not reach the design
pressure within about 10 seconds (due to a leak somewhere or a
malfunctioning air pump), the printer will shut down with an error #1404 (if
I remember correctly). Since that is not happening I'm skeptical about the
carts not pressurizing. But let's make this simple and unequivocal: When the
printer is ready to go, pull the fill plug out of a cart. If it's
pressurized you'll know it. 
 

Apologies, but I'm going to check out of this for the time being. Emails and
work are piling up.
 
Tom
 
Tom Mallonee
Owens Valley Imaging
www.ovimaging.com
760.873.8501
 
Description: Description: OVI_Logo_For_Email.jpg

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David
Kachel
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2011 7:20 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson 3800 and B&W inks headache
 
  
Update�

OK, I took the printer to the carwash and�

Kidding aside. Yesterday I noticed (remember all my cartridges are now
filled with Windex) that the LB position cartridge was not draining at all
with all the cleaning.

I swapped chips and positions with the PK cartridge to see if the LB
cartridge was defective. The newly replaced cartridge in the LB position now
drains just fine and this morning I am getting nozzle checks with only a
couple of little line segments missing. I am assuming this will straighten
itself out after the lines fill more completely with ink and everything
settles down. In any case this is the best I've had since I first tried to
set up the system.

So all this trouble lasting well over a year was due to a defective
cartridge that would not pressurize.

David Kachel

___________________

Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs

www.davidkachel.com
david@... <mailto:david%40davidkachel.com> 

Gallery:
www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
director@...
<mailto:director%40reddoorfinephotographs.com> 

PO Box 1893
Alpine, TX 79831
(432) 386-5787

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>>

>But let's make this simple and unequivocal: When the
>printer is ready to go, pull the fill plug out of a cart. If it's
>pressurized you'll know it.

I did. No pffftt.

David Kachel

___________________

Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs

www.davidkachel.com
david@...

Gallery:
www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
director@...

PO Box  1893
Alpine, TX 79831
(432) 386-5787

David,

 

Very glad to hear you finally got a good nozzle check (in your off-list
email)  no pressure would be a problem - for the one ink channel that wasn't
pressurized. But IF your previous description was accurate about no ink
movement in multiple lines, something in the capping/pumping assembly still
wasn't working right and now is. You didn't mention if you checked the caps
for proper seating. Just pushing down on them can make them flip back into
position. If you don't know exactly what to look for it can be easy to miss.

 

Over and Out.

 

Tom 

 

Tom Mallonee

Owens Valley Imaging

 <http://www.ovimaging.com> www.ovimaging.com

760.873.8501

 

Description: Description: Description: Description: Description:
OVI_Logo_For_Email.jpg

 

 

  

>>>

>But let's make this simple and unequivocal: When the
>printer is ready to go, pull the fill plug out of a cart. If it's
>pressurized you'll know it.

I did. No pffftt.

David Kachel





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]