Digital BW, The Print

I've decided to try framing some prints without a cover matte.  These are Cone K7 grayscale prints that will have been dry mounted, with a Seal press, to archival (4-ply) matte board.  I've determined that the heating process does not adversely affect the Cone (carbon) inks.

To keep the print from contacting the glass, I'll need spacers around the edges.  I have no experience with these, so I'm looking for guidance.  I typically mount in 16"x20" frames.

If anyone can point me to a source that explains techniques, products and pitfalls, I'd be most appreciative.

Harry

This is what I use:

http://www.metroframe.com/Products/Econospace

Not much to it... cut it to size and stick it to the glass.

-Jason


On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 4:52 PM, hflockwood <hflockwood@...> wrote:

> I've decided to try framing some prints without a cover matte.  These are
> Cone K7 grayscale prints that will have been dry mounted, with a Seal press,
> to archival (4-ply) matte board.  I've determined that the heating process
> does not adversely affect the Cone (carbon) inks.
>
> To keep the print from contacting the glass, I'll need spacers around the
> edges.  I have no experience with these, so I'm looking for guidance.  I
> typically mount in 16"x20" frames.
>
> If anyone can point me to a source that explains techniques, products and
> pitfalls, I'd be most appreciative.
>
> Harry
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Go to your local framing shop and see if they will sell you some interspacing. This is an archival product that is placed around all four sides of a piece of glass so the rabbit of the frame and the interspacing protects the print from the glass.Light Impressions did sell it but only in huge amounts, and then that company has turned into a mess and I can't recommend buying anything from them these days.
ann

--- On Wed, 8/3/11, hflockwood <hflockwood@...> wrote:

From: hflockwood <hflockwood@...>
Subject: [Digital BW] Framing without cover matte: Spacers?
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, August 3, 2011, 4:52 PM















 
 



  


    
      
      
      I've decided to try framing some prints without a cover matte.  These are Cone K7 grayscale prints that will have been dry mounted, with a Seal press, to archival (4-ply) matte board.  I've determined that the heating process does not adversely affect the Cone (carbon) inks.



To keep the print from contacting the glass, I'll need spacers around the edges.  I have no experience with these, so I'm looking for guidance.  I typically mount in 16"x20" frames.



If anyone can point me to a source that explains techniques, products and pitfalls, I'd be most appreciative.



Harry





    
     

    
    


 



  










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Still ask what they are made out of. Acid free doesn't mean the same as
archival. Some plastics emit vapors that can interact with prints.

On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 5:07 PM, Jason DeFontes <jason@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> This is what I use:
>
> http://www.metroframe.com/Products/Econospace
>
> Not much to it... cut it to size and stick it to the glass.
>
> -Jason
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 4:52 PM, hflockwood <hflockwood@...> wrote:
>
> > I've decided to try framing some prints without a cover matte. These are
> > Cone K7 grayscale prints that will have been dry mounted, with a Seal
> press,
> > to archival (4-ply) matte board. I've determined that the heating process
> > does not adversely affect the Cone (carbon) inks.
> >
> > To keep the print from contacting the glass, I'll need spacers around the
> > edges. I have no experience with these, so I'm looking for guidance. I
> > typically mount in 16"x20" frames.
> >
> > If anyone can point me to a source that explains techniques, products and
> > pitfalls, I'd be most appreciative.
> >
> > Harry
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have been using these guys material for years. I frame professionally and use several hundred feet a year. Good stuff. I also use foam core trimmed to size and glued to the frame as well wooden spacers that I get from one of my hardwoods suppliers - Picturewoods. 

The plastic is easy to size and self adhesive. The channel space group works well but I find I need a full 1/8 inch allowance on the glass to frame fit if I use that. 


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "hflockwood" <hflockwood@...> wrote:

>
> I've decided to try framing some prints without a cover matte.  These are Cone K7 grayscale prints that will have been dry mounted, with a Seal press, to archival (4-ply) matte board.  I've determined that the heating process does not adversely affect the Cone (carbon) inks.
> 
> To keep the print from contacting the glass, I'll need spacers around the edges.  I have no experience with these, so I'm looking for guidance.  I typically mount in 16"x20" frames.
> 
> If anyone can point me to a source that explains techniques, products and pitfalls, I'd be most appreciative.
> 
> Harry
>

Harry, you are smart to keep the print off the glass to prevent ferrotyping where the emulsion sticks to the glass. FrameTek ( http://www.frametek.com/ ) makes both Econospace and Framespace and they have lots of great information on their website. I prefer Framespace since it clips on the glazing without the need for adhesive. It cost a little more than Econospace but you dont have to worry about the adhesive failing over time and the top spacer dropping down over the print. You can buy them in bulk directly from FrameTek and my company sells them cut to size although we do not have them on our website yet.

If you are concerned about archival and you are not using a mat you also need to consider the frame type since your print will be near the frame. Metal is ok but a wood frame will be very acidic. You can use frame-sealing tape such as Lineco Self-Adhesive Frame Sealing Tape (L387-0151) to protect your print from the frame. 

Cheers,
Mark
President Frame Destination, Inc.
http://www.framedestination.com/


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "hflockwood" <hflockwood@...> wrote:

>
> I've decided to try framing some prints without a cover matte.  These are Cone K7 grayscale prints that will have been dry mounted, with a Seal press, to archival (4-ply) matte board.  I've determined that the heating process does not adversely affect the Cone (carbon) inks.
> 
> To keep the print from contacting the glass, I'll need spacers around the edges.  I have no experience with these, so I'm looking for guidance.  I typically mount in 16"x20" frames.
> 
> If anyone can point me to a source that explains techniques, products and pitfalls, I'd be most appreciative.
> 
> Harry
>

Hi Harry,
Coming in a bit late.. I see you have several good suggestions so far. So you have several options. We have a framing facility here and frequently do this .. so a couple of suggestions especially if your a fickler on archival.. Don't use plastic or wood..The plastics will always emit vapors and the wood will always contain some amount of resin and attract moisture. In truth however they both work fine and will do so for several years. An option that wasn't mentioned and is probably the most cost effective way to get there is to use strips of mat board (typically two) held together with framing adhesive or tape then attached to the rabit in the frame.. Black core matt works especially well for this. Acid free matt board also works but it's not as solid and you'll be dealing with 3/16 rather then 1/8 inch , you can get this stuff in black also.. The other products already mentioned are also great..

good luck

jimbo

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "hflockwood" <hflockwood@...> wrote:

>
> I've decided to try framing some prints without a cover matte.  These are Cone K7 grayscale prints that will have been dry mounted, with a Seal press, to archival (4-ply) matte board.  I've determined that the heating process does not adversely affect the Cone (carbon) inks.
> 
> To keep the print from contacting the glass, I'll need spacers around the edges.  I have no experience with these, so I'm looking for guidance.  I typically mount in 16"x20" frames.
> 
> If anyone can point me to a source that explains techniques, products and pitfalls, I'd be most appreciative.
> 
> Harry
>

Interesting I had the frametek link in my earlier reply and it got ??? scrubbed but Mark's showed up....


Oh well. Concerning archivalness, jimbo is correct about the acids in wood and plastic is....plastic. 

If someone is really concerned about preserving the print they should not be using a spacer to keep the glass off the print. Regardless of how well you mount it there will always be some sort of impact on the original print with ANY type of spacer. 

I framed about 15 original Euro ski posters for a good client and she wanted the same presentation she had been using for years which was hinged to acid free foam core, spacers and acrylic. The previous owner of the frame shop had always done them this way for her and I think she thought I was making it up that the spacer imprint line on the poster would seriously devalue the print. Some of these were worth several thousand dollars and were collectible, so it was my duty to advise against this type of mounting and spacer. She insisted on it as that was her visual style.....

My two cents.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "James" <mrjimbo@...> wrote:

>
> Hi Harry,
> Coming in a bit late.. I see you have several good suggestions so far. So you have several options. We have a framing facility here and frequently do this .. so a couple of suggestions especially if your a fickler on archival.. Don't use plastic or wood..The plastics will always emit vapors and the wood will always contain some amount of resin and attract moisture. In truth however they both work fine and will do so for several years. An option that wasn't mentioned and is probably the most cost effective way to get there is to use strips of mat board (typically two) held together with framing adhesive or tape then attached to the rabit in the frame.. Black core matt works especially well for this. Acid free matt board also works but it's not as solid and you'll be dealing with 3/16 rather then 1/8 inch , you can get this stuff in black also.. The other products already mentioned are also great..
> 
> good luck
> 
> jimbo
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "hflockwood" <hflockwood@> wrote:
> >
> > I've decided to try framing some prints without a cover matte.  These are Cone K7 grayscale prints that will have been dry mounted, with a Seal press, to archival (4-ply) matte board.  I've determined that the heating process does not adversely affect the Cone (carbon) inks.
> > 
> > To keep the print from contacting the glass, I'll need spacers around the edges.  I have no experience with these, so I'm looking for guidance.  I typically mount in 16"x20" frames.
> > 
> > If anyone can point me to a source that explains techniques, products and pitfalls, I'd be most appreciative.
> > 
> > Harry
> >
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mrgs1001" <mrgs1001@...> wrote:
>
> Harry, you are smart to keep the print off the glass to prevent ferrotyping where the emulsion sticks to the glass. FrameTek ( http://www.frametek.com/ ) makes both Econospace and Framespace and they have lots of great information on their website. I prefer Framespace since it clips on the glazing without the need for adhesive. It cost a little more than Econospace but you dont have to worry about the adhesive failing over time and the top spacer dropping down over the print. You can buy them in bulk directly from FrameTek and my company sells them cut to size although we do not have them on our website yet.
> 
> If you are concerned about archival and you are not using a mat you also need to consider the frame type since your print will be near the frame. Metal is ok but a wood frame will be very acidic. You can use frame-sealing tape such as Lineco Self-Adhesive Frame Sealing Tape (L387-0151) to protect your print from the frame. 
> 
> Cheers,
> Mark
> President Frame Destination, Inc.
> http://www.framedestination.com/
> 

Thanks, Mark, and everyone else for jumping in with valuable suggestions.  It's great to belong to a community of folks so willing to help.

I also received a private message suggesting FrameTek, and it looks like the way to go.  I should clear up one point though: the print is always mounted on archival matte board and is smaller than the board itself and the (metal) frame.  So, the print will never be in contact with plastic at the edge of the board; only the board will be in contact with the spacer.

The motivation for eliminating the framing matte is both aesthetic and financial.  I kind of like the uncluttered look of the print mounted this way.  Also, with my Logan Matcutter it is difficult to get perfectly straight edges, and more importantly, perfect corners.  For an exhibit of 26 prints some time ago, I therefore decided to have the matte board cut professionally by a frame shop.  The machine-made cuts were indeed perfect but cost a small fortune.

Again, thanks all,

Harry

Hi again Harry,
Looks like you got it figured out.. a question however as I just remembered something in your original post. Your going to mount the art to your substrate in a seal press.. So it a full surface adhesive to the back of the print.. Typically one lets the adhesive film or spray run beyond the print a bit so would end up being visible ..No biggy usually as it's covered typically with a mat.. So your going to have to cheat the film inside the print right? That's a PIA but do-able.. typically you do this on a larger piece of foam core and retrim afterwards to make sure you centered & square..  Hinge tape gets you away from this but in this case you'd want a mat to help hold back print curl over time..
just a few thoughts...............

jimbo

 ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: hflockwood 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 6:50 AM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Framing without cover matte: Spacers?


    


  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mrgs1001" <mrgs1001@...> wrote:
  >
  > Harry, you are smart to keep the print off the glass to prevent ferrotyping where the emulsion sticks to the glass. FrameTek ( http://www.frametek.com/ ) makes both Econospace and Framespace and they have lots of great information on their website. I prefer Framespace since it clips on the glazing without the need for adhesive. It cost a little more than Econospace but you dont have to worry about the adhesive failing over time and the top spacer dropping down over the print. You can buy them in bulk directly from FrameTek and my company sells them cut to size although we do not have them on our website yet.
  > 
  > If you are concerned about archival and you are not using a mat you also need to consider the frame type since your print will be near the frame. Metal is ok but a wood frame will be very acidic. You can use frame-sealing tape such as Lineco Self-Adhesive Frame Sealing Tape (L387-0151) to protect your print from the frame. 
  > 
  > Cheers,
  > Mark
  > President Frame Destination, Inc.
  > http://www.framedestination.com/
  > 

  Thanks, Mark, and everyone else for jumping in with valuable suggestions. It's great to belong to a community of folks so willing to help.

  I also received a private message suggesting FrameTek, and it looks like the way to go. I should clear up one point though: the print is always mounted on archival matte board and is smaller than the board itself and the (metal) frame. So, the print will never be in contact with plastic at the edge of the board; only the board will be in contact with the spacer.

  The motivation for eliminating the framing matte is both aesthetic and financial. I kind of like the uncluttered look of the print mounted this way. Also, with my Logan Matcutter it is difficult to get perfectly straight edges, and more importantly, perfect corners. For an exhibit of 26 prints some time ago, I therefore decided to have the matte board cut professionally by a frame shop. The machine-made cuts were indeed perfect but cost a small fortune.

  Again, thanks all,

  Harry



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@...> wrote:
>
> Hi again Harry,
> Looks like you got it figured out.. a question however as I just remembered something in your original post. Your going to mount the art to your substrate in a seal press.. So it a full surface adhesive to the back of the print.. Typically one lets the adhesive film or spray run beyond the print a bit so would end up being visible ..No biggy usually as it's covered typically with a mat.. So your going to have to cheat the film inside the print right? That's a PIA but do-able.. typically you do this on a larger piece of foam core and retrim afterwards to make sure you centered & square..  Hinge tape gets you away from this but in this case you'd want a mat to help hold back print curl over time..
> just a few thoughts...............
> 
> jimbo

Jimbo,

I use the Seal mounting tissue that extends beyond the edges of the print and tack it from the print side with a tacking iron applied through a sheet of (Seal) release paper.  I then trim about a mm into the print using a Rolatrim cutter. Cutting it square is no problem, using the guide on the Rolatrim. You're right though, it's a bit tricky getting it centered and square on the board; I use T-squares and faint marks to that end.  And that 1-mm loss from the edges of the print is typically less than what one loses with an overmat.

Thanks for those thoughts,
Harry