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Starting from scratch, unfortunately!

Starting from scratch, unfortunately!

2011-11-21 by crepuscolino

Hi all,

Friday got some MIS EZN carts for my old C86 and started to play: K was only cart to be recognized. Left the eboni k in, replaced my old YMC from epson and all were recognized. Printed the head-testing zigzag pattern and saw no Y, ok M, gappy C and no eboni! Ran a bunch if clean cycles and still no progress. Sent a small jpeg, page came out blank. So, new carts but busted printer...  Hence starting from scratch. And I would really appreciate some advice. Here's a wish list. 

I'd like to print nice BW on matte fine art papers. 
I'd like it to be as easy as possible: have zero experience with profiling etc. 
I'd like to maintain colour capabilities if possible. 

Here are options I am considering:

0. Clean or fix the c86?
1. A workforce 30. With epson inks. Durabrite on photorag 308? Maybe using black only? Durabrite are pigments, so I expect decent archival quality?
2. Above plus ezn inks again. Maybe buy empty carts and move ink from my now useless c86 carts? How hard would it be to switch back to durabrite eventually?
3. A slightly fancier epson with MIS inks but still using simply the epson driver?
4. A  fancy r2880 (or r3000? with rebate!), epson inks in ABW mode, no tinkering but most expensive. 

As you can see I am all over the place. On the one hand there's a 8x11 project I am itching to get done soon, cheaply. On the other is the idea of investing in a decent printer and start learning all this profiling business...

I would be so grateful for any input, or even questions to help me figure out his to proceed...

Many thanks,
Gianguido

Re: Starting from scratch, unfortunately!

2011-11-21 by crepuscolino

Actually there could be another reason for my failure with the C86:

The black was recognized, but didn't print: should I have removed the plastic cap that is over the "vent" hole labelled here: http://www.inksupply.com/instructions_epson_c84_r200_r300_r800_r2400.cfm 

Or would I damage the  cartridge? The other EZ-N carts weren't recognized, perhaps their chips need resetting? Also, while trying to debug this, I placed the K cart in the C or M slot... no love, did I now mess up its chip too? I wonder if cleaning the nozzle with some MIS cleaning fluid would help?

So things might not be as hopeless as I thought for my C86?

What do you guys think?

Thanks again!
Gianguido

Re: Starting from scratch, unfortunately!

2011-11-21 by Paul

"crepuscolino" <gianguido.cianci@...> wrote:
>
> Friday got some MIS EZN carts for my old C86 and started to play: K was only cart to be recognized. Left the eboni k in, replaced my old YMC from epson and all were recognized. Printed the head-testing zigzag pattern and saw no Y, ok M, gappy C and no eboni! 


You must remove the plug in the air inlets.



> I'd like to print nice BW on matte fine art papers. 
> I'd like it to be as easy as possible: have zero experience with profiling etc. 


The MIS "EZ" systems were set up for that market.

I set up the newer WorkForce 1100 in a similar manner but recommended using LK density for the midtone ink.  See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1100.pdf  It appears MIS did not follow my recommendation, so to avoid confusion with their approach, I'm calling the LK density "EZ" approach by a different name -- "K2-Quad."  It uses the K2 LK and has 4 black/gray inks.


> I'd like to maintain colour capabilities if possible. 


The K3 machines do the best job of color plus B&W.  Anytime you go for more flexibility, however, there are usually compromises.  I recently noted that I'll be making some Claria "black only" plus LM toned profiles.  But, no single channel printing like this can really deliver the smoothness of a full B&W inkset or one that has at least some dilute gray inks.  On the other hand, some love the black only ("BO") "tri-x" look.

The approach I'd say is the worst is to use high gamut color inks to try and make a neutral gray B&W.  

 
> Here are options I am considering:
> 
> 0. Clean or fix the c86?

Try the trick of putting Windex with amonia on the parking pad and having the head sit in it over night.  You get to the parking pad by pushing the ink changing button so the head moves to the left and then pulling the plug.  On older machines you can also just reach into the printer and move the large gear on the left toward you.  I moves a locking peg down to release the head.  At any rate, the amonia will dissolve dried in on the head.  After an overnight soak, do a head cleaning.  If OEM inks still give a bad nozzle check, you may have a head that is seriously clogged.  More work, like cleaning solutions in carts with some windex mixed in might work, but a C86 is not worth too much trouble.


> 1. A workforce 30. With epson inks. Durabrite on photorag 308?

Good color, bad B&W.

> Maybe using black only?

Not on a WorkForce -- no QTR support.  You need QTR for black only.

> Durabrite are pigments, so I expect decent archival quality?

They are probably the same as UltraChrome.  The Durabrite yellow, for example, was the same cart and chip as the 2400 yellow.


> 2. Above plus ezn inks again. Maybe buy empty carts and move ink from my now useless c86 carts? How hard would it be to switch back to durabrite eventually?


You can switch back and forth, but it takes probably 2 cleaning cycles to get all the color out of the heads.  It's a nuisance.


> 3. A slightly fancier epson with MIS inks but still using simply the epson driver?


That's what the MIS "EZ" and my 1100 K2-Quad systems are aimed at.  


> 4. A  fancy r2880 (or r3000? with rebate!), epson inks in ABW mode, no tinkering but most expensive. 


You'll still be doing some tinkering with the ABW controls to get the print to match the monitor.  

There is not perfect system that can do it all.  I think the "EZ" system wins the quality/effort and $ contest.  The OEM K3 wins the flexibility contest. (And dyes on high gloss, metallic papers win the "Wow" contest for cards and snapshots, but not for matte paper or fine art on the wall.)

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: Starting from scratch, unfortunately!

2011-11-21 by crepuscolino

Paul thank you so much for your detailed answer! 
> 
> 
> You must remove the plug in the air inlets.
> 

Yup. The black cart works fine now. Doh! The printhead pattern has a little gap in black, will try to print a few more when i get back home. The YMC carts are not recognized. Waiting for MIS to get back to me on that one...

> 
> The MIS "EZ" systems were set up for that market.
> 
> I set up the newer WorkForce 1100 in a similar manner but recommended using LK density for the midtone ink.  See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1100.pdf  It appears MIS did not follow my recommendation, so to avoid confusion with their approach, I'm calling the LK density "EZ" approach by a different name -- "K2-Quad."  It uses the K2 LK and has 4 black/gray inks.


So I could potentially use the K2-Quad on my C86? I'll have to re-read your pdf to get a better idea of the advantages over the EZ-N set.

>  
> > Here are options I am considering:
> > 
> > 0. Clean or fix the c86?
> 
> Try the trick of putting Windex with amonia on the parking pad and having the head sit in it over night.  You get to the parking pad by pushing the ink changing button so the head moves to the left and then pulling the plug.  On older machines you can also just reach into the printer and move the large gear on the left toward you.  I moves a locking peg down to release the head.  At any rate, the amonia will dissolve dried in on the head.  After an overnight soak, do a head cleaning.  If OEM inks still give a bad nozzle check, you may have a head that is seriously clogged.  More work, like cleaning solutions in carts with some windex mixed in might work, but a C86 is not worth too much trouble.

Will try that, thanks! I guess I got discouraged and a little confused by the combination of two issues: closed vent on K and unrecognized carts on YMC...

> 
> > 2. Above plus ezn inks again. Maybe buy empty carts and move ink from my now useless c86 carts? How hard would it be to switch back to durabrite eventually?
> 
> 
> You can switch back and forth, but it takes probably 2 cleaning cycles to get all the color out of the heads.  It's a nuisance.

Might get a set of cleaning carts to fix my clogging but then also use those between inkset switches...

> 
> 
> > 3. A slightly fancier epson with MIS inks but still using simply the epson driver?
> 
> 
> That's what the MIS "EZ" and my 1100 K2-Quad systems are aimed at.  
> 

Yes, very tempted. I have to say it takes a few reads to get used to all the info and terms in your pdfs. But I think I am getting the hang of it now! :-)

> 
> > 4. A  fancy r2880 (or r3000? with rebate!), epson inks in ABW mode, no tinkering but most expensive. 
> 
> 
> You'll still be doing some tinkering with the ABW controls to get the print to match the monitor.  

Yeah... plus the hardware upgrade syndrome is rarely cured with a purchase....

> 
> There is not perfect system that can do it all.  I think the "EZ" system wins the quality/effort and $ contest.  The OEM K3 wins the flexibility contest. (And dyes on high gloss, metallic papers win the "Wow" contest for cards and snapshots, but not for matte paper or fine art on the wall.)


Paul, thanks again for your help here and all the work you've put into this community!

Gianguido
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Starting from scratch, unfortunately!

2011-11-21 by Kip Babington

If you can't get the C86 running you can still get a C88 from Amazon for 
under $90 and run the EZ inks in that.  Check 
http://www.amazon.com/Epson-Stylus-C88-Printer-C11C617121/dp/B000FSOZE4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1321907456&sr=8-2  


I've been using EZ inks for years, starting with the C84 when it was the 
current model, and moving on to the C88 when it replaced the earlier 
models.  (I think they take the same cartridges, as I was able to 
transfer my CIS from the C84 to the C88 without any adjustments that I 
can rec all.).  I make hundreds of 8x8 prints at Christmas to bind into 
books for family members, and have always been pleased with the ease 
with which this printer/ink combination makes nice B&W images.  Printer 
longevity is not a strong point for these printers - I can't remember 
how many I've had over the years but I had at least 3 of the 84s and 
have had at least 5 or 6 of the 88s.  I think I do usually get at least 
a thousand prints out of one, so I'm not really complaining.

Cheers,
Kip

crepuscolino wrote:
>  
>
> Paul thank you so much for your detailed answer!
> >
>
> < snip >
> 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: Starting from scratch, unfortunately!

2011-11-22 by crepuscolino

Hi Kip,

at $90 might as well go to $107 and get the 1100, no? If I understand Paul correctly, that could be used with straight up EZ inks, or with the more recent K2-Quad. Not sure exactly the benefit of the newer setup... still have to reread those PDFs a few times!

Can't wait to get printing!
Gianguido

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Kip Babington <cbabing3@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> If you can't get the C86 running you can still get a C88 from Amazon for 
> under $90 and run the EZ inks in that.  Check 
> http://www.amazon.com/Epson-Stylus-C88-Printer-C11C617121/dp/B000FSOZE4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1321907456&sr=8-2  
> 
> 
> I've been using EZ inks for years, starting with the C84 when it was the 
> current model, and moving on to the C88 when it replaced the earlier 
> models.  (I think they take the same cartridges, as I was able to 
> transfer my CIS from the C84 to the C88 without any adjustments that I 
> can rec all.).  I make hundreds of 8x8 prints at Christmas to bind into 
> books for family members, and have always been pleased with the ease 
> with which this printer/ink combination makes nice B&W images.  Printer 
> longevity is not a strong point for these printers - I can't remember 
> how many I've had over the years but I had at least 3 of the 84s and 
> have had at least 5 or 6 of the 88s.  I think I do usually get at least 
> a thousand prints out of one, so I'm not really complaining.
> 
> Cheers,
> Kip
>

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