Digital BW, The Print

Happy New year to all.

I thought some might be interested in my latest ink setup in the 1400 that I'm using for the dyes (Claria and Noritsu).  My priorities with the dyes is a bit different than with the carbon inks, and I should be clear at the outset that 100% carbon remains the winner for my fine art display prints.  For cards, brochures and other hand held prints not under glass/acrylic, however, I still believe the dyes on metallic paper take the prize.  So optimizing an approach for those is what this project is about.

One goal of the project is to stay somewhat consistent with the Claria OEM setup.  At a minimum that requires LM and K to be in those spots so that I can profile for the OEM setups if needed.  However, a toned BO print will not satisfy the discriminating printer.  I see it as a way to get the large base of those printers an easy way to see why it's even worth messing with this approach, and it obviously is, in my view.

After dealing mostly with monotone inksets recently, I have to admit I really like having the yellow and light magenta colors available.  (Claria/Noritsu K has a green/cyan hue, so I have yet to use the LC for toning.  So it's gone from the most recent setup.)  The fact that there are microscopic color dots in the image is, visually, irrelevant.  Having the Y and LM toners separate allows OEM Claria carts to be used, avoiding the large (500 ml) and expensive ($187) Noritsu carts, though for the K, it makes a lot of sense to buy one of these.  

One odd thing I've noticed, that may or may not affect longevity, is that it takes way less separate LM to neutralize the green K than if M is mixed into a monotone.  

I don't know if there is any "catalytic" interaction between the color inks in a mix, but keeping them separate avoids that risk also.

I simply don't print color, but having the yellow (and LM less so) in the printer for highlighting map routes, etc. is very handy -- enough so that this 1400 may well replace the 1100 as the default office printer.

The yellow to control the OBA blueness also appears to be working. The brochures where I've toned down the paper white look much better next to my fine art, natural paper prints, and the natural paper doesn't look yellow in comparison.  So, bottom line, yellow is likely to stay in the printer, and I don't mind paying Epson it's fee for that given how little will actually be used.

I really like the "EZ" single midtone gray approach as well as multiple carts of K -- less ink refilling and easier when done.

So the latest 1400 setup is: K position = Noritsu (Claia) K; Y=Y; LM=LM (actually 30% Noritsu M in my case); LC=Noritsu LK (1:2 dilution of K); C=K; M=Noritsu LK.  So the inkset has 2 Ks and 2 LKs, along with the LM primary toner and Y for OBA control, highlighting, and warm printing.

The cyan channel LK-K setup allows the Epson printer to make nearly perfect prints while using the minimum color needed to control the K green tint.  There are no bad color crossovers in the shadows or anywhere.  The profiles, which can be in ICCs, are near perfect.  This gives me both the raw speed of Epson v. QTR as well as the ability to print the B&W and yellow OBA control on a single pass.  (Selection areas with different curves.)  So, I've more than doubled my speed in making cards and brochures.

For the best prints, I'll still use QTR so that I can better utilize the full quad potential for smoothness.  Multiple LKs are often smoother than a serially profiled quad with all different ink densities.

This setup does require a 1:2 dilution for the LK, but I don't even bother with scales for that.  One syringe full of K and 2 of base into a small bottle does it.  Once the base is mixed (See fn 14, page 4, http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/BW-Dye.pdf ) this is a very easy setup to maintain.

I tried to stay closer to the OEM inks, but I really dislike the idea of excess color in the print (needed to smooth BO), and I want more smoothness than BO can deliver.  So, a "2K-2LK" quad with Y and LM is where I'm at now.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Paul:
Interesting set up you have developed for the 1400. And, I'm guessing it should be fairly "archival", depending on the papers you choose. By not mixing much, or any cyan, in with magenta, I'm guessing minimal dye interactions. But then I'm supposing this with my experience with Ilford dyes. The Claria/Noritsu combo might be different. Maybe submit a sample for Mark to test? For longer life, I agree with not mixing a monotone, although manufacturers have often mixed in yellow to their black to achieve a more neutral black.

Also, beware of atmospheric degradation problems with microporous papers, not protected with glass, or sealant spray. 

John Nollendorfs

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@...> wrote:

>
> Happy New year to all.
> 
> I thought some might be interested in my latest ink setup in the 1400 that I'm using for the dyes (Claria and Noritsu).  My priorities with the dyes is a bit different than with the carbon inks, and I should be clear at the outset that 100% carbon remains the winner for my fine art display prints.  For cards, brochures and other hand held prints not under glass/acrylic, however, I still believe the dyes on metallic paper take the prize.  So optimizing an approach for those is what this project is about.
> 
> One goal of the project is to stay somewhat consistent with the Claria OEM setup.  At a minimum that requires LM and K to be in those spots so that I can profile for the OEM setups if needed.  However, a toned BO print will not satisfy the discriminating printer.  I see it as a way to get the large base of those printers an easy way to see why it's even worth messing with this approach, and it obviously is, in my view.
> 
> After dealing mostly with monotone inksets recently, I have to admit I really like having the yellow and light magenta colors available.  (Claria/Noritsu K has a green/cyan hue, so I have yet to use the LC for toning.  So it's gone from the most recent setup.)  The fact that there are microscopic color dots in the image is, visually, irrelevant.  Having the Y and LM toners separate allows OEM Claria carts to be used, avoiding the large (500 ml) and expensive ($187) Noritsu carts, though for the K, it makes a lot of sense to buy one of these.  
> 
> One odd thing I've noticed, that may or may not affect longevity, is that it takes way less separate LM to neutralize the green K than if M is mixed into a monotone.  
> 
> I don't know if there is any "catalytic" interaction between the color inks in a mix, but keeping them separate avoids that risk also.
> 
> I simply don't print color, but having the yellow (and LM less so) in the printer for highlighting map routes, etc. is very handy -- enough so that this 1400 may well replace the 1100 as the default office printer.
> 
> The yellow to control the OBA blueness also appears to be working. The brochures where I've toned down the paper white look much better next to my fine art, natural paper prints, and the natural paper doesn't look yellow in comparison.  So, bottom line, yellow is likely to stay in the printer, and I don't mind paying Epson it's fee for that given how little will actually be used.
> 
> I really like the "EZ" single midtone gray approach as well as multiple carts of K -- less ink refilling and easier when done.
> 
> So the latest 1400 setup is: K position = Noritsu (Claia) K; Y=Y; LM=LM (actually 30% Noritsu M in my case); LC=Noritsu LK (1:2 dilution of K); C=K; M=Noritsu LK.  So the inkset has 2 Ks and 2 LKs, along with the LM primary toner and Y for OBA control, highlighting, and warm printing.
> 
> The cyan channel LK-K setup allows the Epson printer to make nearly perfect prints while using the minimum color needed to control the K green tint.  There are no bad color crossovers in the shadows or anywhere.  The profiles, which can be in ICCs, are near perfect.  This gives me both the raw speed of Epson v. QTR as well as the ability to print the B&W and yellow OBA control on a single pass.  (Selection areas with different curves.)  So, I've more than doubled my speed in making cards and brochures.
> 
> For the best prints, I'll still use QTR so that I can better utilize the full quad potential for smoothness.  Multiple LKs are often smoother than a serially profiled quad with all different ink densities.
> 
> This setup does require a 1:2 dilution for the LK, but I don't even bother with scales for that.  One syringe full of K and 2 of base into a small bottle does it.  Once the base is mixed (See fn 14, page 4, http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/BW-Dye.pdf ) this is a very easy setup to maintain.
> 
> I tried to stay closer to the OEM inks, but I really dislike the idea of excess color in the print (needed to smooth BO), and I want more smoothness than BO can deliver.  So, a "2K-2LK" quad with Y and LM is where I'm at now.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

Hi John,

> Interesting set up you have developed for the 1400. 

Thank you.  I'm having fun pursuing the technology.  The alternative approaches are as compatible as possible while giving me and others a way to balance our preferences among OEM, smoothness, avoidance of color, projected longevity -- the need for which, of course, varies with the use of the print.

This effort must, of course, be put in the context of 100% carbon being the matte paper, fine art & museum end of the scale for me.  My digital darkroom workflows and inks, hopefully, set up two distinct technologies for different uses and markets, with *enough* differences that the pricing for the two markets can be separated.  In economics, one maximizes revenues by "skimming the demand curve."  The seller -- including photographer or artist -- needs to be able to separate markets to maintain a price differential.  I hope to separate my markets of interest and allow each to find its own price points.


> And, I'm guessing it should be fairly "archival", 

Not too short and not do long, and, it appears, flexible enough to cover several different market segments.

> depending on the papers you choose.

And whether one sprays (and with what), and which workflow and inkset one chooses, among, I suppose, lots of other factors.

> By not mixing much, or any cyan, in with magenta, I'm guessing minimal dye interactions.


Yes.  I am now avoiding all mixing of different dyes.   

In the latest "2K 2LK" iteration, I dilute with a base that is very close to Noritsu's.  The surfactants are the main difference and those tend to be very compatible.  There is only one simple dilution of the black.  All colors come from Epson Claria carts, as is -- no messing with colors is needed.  Mix the base by the liter with a 10cc syringe; the 1:2 uses the same syringe; no scales are needed. Keeping it as simple as possible is a factor.

Of course, my diluted K may well not be as lightfast as the OEM K.  It would be nice to test it or have it tested.  I'll do a simple comparison of initial fading at some point, but an Aardenburg-Imaging test would have much more significance.  For my cards, I'm OK with what I've seen in a year of actual display -- no visible fade.  That is good enough for cards and brochures.

I suspect any increased rate of fade of the dilute K -- the "LK" -- would be largely due to the more dilute nature of the inks.  That is one of several reasons to stay with only an LK and not go to an LLK.

The dilute Claria colors seem to hold their own.  So, I'm hopeful the advances dyes (molecular pigments?) are tough enough to hold up when the crystals are somewhat more spread out.  


> ... beware of atmospheric degradation problems with microporous papers, not protected with glass, or sealant spray. 


Yes, that is an important for long term display.  I have used the Lascaux Fixativ for carbon and these dyes because it has the least affect on the image and, being 100% acrylic, is probably least likely to yellow.  In particular, with the metallic paper the Lascaux preserves the unique "3D" effect that the paper can provide.


Paul
www.PaulRoark.com