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Cabot pigments?

Cabot pigments?

2012-02-06 by David

On Paul Roark's web site, I just came across a very interesting document from Cabot Corporation, which includes data on longevity of that companies pigments.  From a bit of searching, it appears that Cabot is a US chemical company that makes a variety of products, including pigments that other manufacturers use in inks.

Does anyone know anything about what inks contain the Cabot pigments?  Do the MIS inks?  I suspect that this is not something that is widely publicized, but perhaps someone has heard a rumor.

Thanks,
David

Re: [Digital BW] Cabot pigments?

2012-02-06 by C D Tobie

On Feb 6, 2012, at 12:25 AM, David wrote:

> On Paul Roark's web site, I just came across a very interesting document from Cabot Corporation, which includes data on longevity of that companies pigments. From a bit of searching, it appears that Cabot is a US chemical company that makes a variety of products, including pigments that other manufacturers use in inks.

Cabot has a line of pigment-based exterior stains under their own name as well. Longevity info for pigments is a bit like knowing how long the chromium in your car's muffler will last: not very relevant if the whole muffler rusts out. Its less the pigments than the sum total ink product, as laid down by a particular type of printer, on a type of media, that is needed to have a sense of print life.

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager


Datacolor
5 Princess Road
Lawrenceville, NJ 08648, USA
609.924.2189
www.datacolor.com

Phone: 207.685.9248
Mobile: 207.312.0448
Fax: 207.685.4455
Email:  cdtobie@...
Skype: cdtobie



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Cabot pigments?

2012-02-06 by Paul

"David" <dpgoldenberg33@...> wrote:
>
> On Paul Roark's web site, I just came across a very interesting document from Cabot Corporation, which includes data on longevity of that companies pigments.  From a bit of searching, it appears that Cabot is a US chemical company that makes a variety of products, including pigments that other manufacturers use in inks.
> 
> Does anyone know anything about what inks contain the Cabot pigments?  Do the MIS inks?  I suspect that this is not something that is widely publicized, but perhaps someone has heard a rumor.



What I was told by Bob Zeiss is the the Cabot carbon is warm, like the MIS PK and its dilutions.  Whether Image Specialists is, in fact, buying from Cabot is unknown.  It sounded like Eboni was not a Cabot product, however.


Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: Cabot pigments?

2012-02-07 by David

Thanks, Paul.  I guessed that you would be the one to have heard a rumor.  Did your answer imply that MIS buys its inks from Image Specialists?  And, who is Bob Zeiss?  Someone associated with MIS?

Just trying to learn the few available bits of information about this mysterious business,

David


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> "David" <dpgoldenberg33@> wrote:
> >
> > On Paul Roark's web site, I just came across a very interesting document from Cabot Corporation, which includes data on longevity of that companies pigments.  From a bit of searching, it appears that Cabot is a US chemical company that makes a variety of products, including pigments that other manufacturers use in inks.
> > 
> > Does anyone know anything about what inks contain the Cabot pigments?  Do the MIS inks?  I suspect that this is not something that is widely publicized, but perhaps someone has heard a rumor.
> 
> 
> 
> What I was told by Bob Zeiss is the the Cabot carbon is warm, like the MIS PK and its dilutions.  Whether Image Specialists is, in fact, buying from Cabot is unknown.  It sounded like Eboni was not a Cabot product, however.
> 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

Re: Cabot pigments?

2012-02-07 by Paul

"David" <dpgoldenberg33@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Paul.  I guessed that you would be the one to have heard a rumor.  Did your answer imply that MIS buys its inks from Image Specialists?


I think it's widely believed that Image Specialists is their primary supplier of ink.  MIS is the US distributor for IS.  See http://www.image-specialists.com/about_us_global_dis.aspx


> And, who is Bob Zeiss?  Someone associated with MIS?


He was the founder of MIS.  He's now retired and under a "do not compete" contract.  Bob was a mechanical engineer in the TRW auto parts company.  He worked his way up to the executive ranks and then was put in charge of the management information systems.  He got used to answering his phone "MIS."  That, not "Michigan Ink Supply," was the genesis of the "MIS Associates" name.  His first product was an acrylic guard over the power switch on an IBM server.  The switch stuck out, and people would accidentally hit it and crash the system.  So, he made a plastic guard to stop that.  IBM saw it and asked if he could make more for others.  He did. That started MIS Associates. Then someone wondered why inks were so expensive.  So, he looked into that and found alternatives. 

 
> Just trying to learn the few available bits of information about this mysterious business,


I don't think it's all that mysterious.  The fundamental printing advances are really on the hardware side.  The ability to lay down drops of ink accurately enough to make photos is at the core of what we do now. Epson and the others have done an excellent job of making these printers affordable.  This requires significant economies of scale to spread the development costs.  So, they do need to target large markets -- meaning color primarily, not B&W.

The use of pigments is about as old as humanity, and the pigment industry is much larger than the inkjet industry.  Carbon has been used for at least 30,000 years.  So have color pigments, but finding color pigments that are appropriate for inkjet printing is a little more tricky. As my generic dilution bases show, the dilution base in itself is rather simple.  Preparing pigments for inkjet uses is not so simple.  So, while I've found and used a color pigment that is a single-pigment carbon warmth offset (read no green shift upon fade), I don't have the equipment to properly prepare it for inkjet use.

Because most people look at the initial price as opposed to the life-cycle price, what I call the "Gillette" model -- give the razor away and nick them on the blades -- plays a major role in the marketing.  So, the printer companies all find it useful to keep the printer prices down and then make as much money as possible on the inks.  Luckily, the antitrust traditions and laws have historically disallowed "tying," such that a supplier of the original machine cannot arbitrarily stop competition in the market for supplies needed to operate the machine.  Thus third party ink sellers have been able to sell -- usually cheaper -- inks into the inkjet market.  Fortunately for B&W photographers very good carbon pigments are readily available and cheap.

Photography has always been a combination of art, craft and technology. The move from the wet darkroom to digital printing has provided those of us in the field during this transition with a wonderful opportunity to explore the alternatives.  

Given the role that technology plays and the continued advances in digital technology, I suspect different parts of the field will continue to experience rapid change, with its attendant opportunities.    

It's a fun time to be a photographer.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

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