Digital BW, The Print

Paul,

Hi. Back in November we had an exchange about warm tone inks in the Epson
1400. Though I bought the printer back then, along with inks, cartridges,
etc., I just today got around to swapping in the B&W inks for the original
color (just used up the color that came with it).

After I realized I had been attempting to put ink into the wrong hole,
loading the cartridges went more smoothly and with much less mess (though I
am in doubt as to what to do about loading ink into a syringe after the ink
level in the bottles gets below the length of the needle). Got the
cartridges set into the machine, pushed the ink drop button and let the
machine perform its ablutions.

I recall you telling me I then have to run a cleaning cycle, but thought I
would run a nozzle check first, just to see what I have. To my astonishment,
all the nozzles show complete checks and all the colors are gray.
Apparently, the machine did enough cleaning on its own to get the color out
of the lines: a surprising and rewarding turn of events.

At the time of purchase I did not know about the "bottom fill adaptor" and
therefore went ahead without that step. So far it appears to have been
unnecessary. Any comments on this? Do I really need to mess with this thing?

You may recall that you advised the following inks in the following
positions for maximum warm tone on matte cotton papers:

K = K4-4-K
C & M = K4-4-PK
LC & LM = K4-4-LK
Y = K4-4-LLK

If you would be so kind as to refresh my memory as to the options for
printing with regard to using Photoshop or QTR, profiles etc. Easiest way,
hardest route, in the middle if there is a third option.

Just using the Epson color inks up to this point for brochures and such, I
like this little printer so much, I think I may buy another and keep MIS
color inks in it.

(I've had an HP B9180 up to now and really like not having to stand in front
of a printer and baby it the whole time it is printing.)



David Kachel

___________________

Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs

www.davidkachel.com
david@...

Gallery:
www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
director@...

PO Box  1893
Alpine, TX 79831
(432) 386-5787




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

David Kachel <david@...> wrote:
>
> ... about warm tone inks in the Epson 1400. ...

> (... I am in doubt as to what to do about loading ink into
> a syringe after the ink level in the bottles gets below the 
> length of the needle). 

Get a longer needle; use wide top 4 oz. bottles; pour the ink into a small beaker first; use a CIS with a funnel; whatever ...

> ... nozzle check first, .. all the nozzles show complete checks 
> and all the colors are gray.

Good.  You may want to print a purge patter on plain paper to be sure the color at the top of the pattern is the same as at the bottom.  There is usually some residual ink in the heads after the initial switch from color to B&W.

 
> At the time of purchase I did not know about the 
> "bottom fill adaptor" and therefore went ahead without 
> that step. So far it appears to have been unnecessary. 

You're lucky.  It may be that the latest carts are built to avoid the old bubble in the outlet problem.  That would be nice.

> ... you advised the following inks in the following
> positions for maximum warm tone on matte cotton papers:
> 
> K = K4-4-K
> C & M = K4-4-PK
> LC & LM = K4-4-LK
> Y = K4-4-LLK
> 

MIS K4 glossy carbon inks are what I use for my very warm matte and "sepia" glossy printing.

> ... refresh my memory as to the options for
> printing with regard to using Photoshop or QTR, profiles etc. 

> Easiest way,

Try the Epson driver.  You might try one where the printer controls the color handling.  Try Color Controls with gamma 2.2.  Use the highest quality printing options.

I prefer an ICC workflow.  For this you'll need to print with "No Color Adjustment" (with modern software, at least).  For the best printing a Photoshop image adjustment curve is embedded in the ICC.  I probably have some out there somewhere for this type of setup.  The ICCs are made with QTR's Create ICC-RGB.

QTR -- the rip -- is, of course, always the most flexible in terms of being able to control each ink separately, but you really don't need it for simple printing on matte or glossy coated papers with a monotone inkset like this.

I'm a big fan of the Epson 1400 (hopefully the 1430 takes the same profiles) as well as the Epson 1100 for desktop B&W.

Good luck with the system.  Let us know how it works out.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Hi Paul,

I know you spoke highly of the 1400 ... I think it came out about the time I bought my R1800. Lately I was looking up prices on the 1400 but it seems like it is no longer available, even as a refurb. Is that so? I couldn't find one anywhere.

I didn't know about the 1430, that must be the newer version of the 1400 - the wireless feature looks enticing. I'll do some research on that.

Thanks,

Paul

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@...> wrote:

>
> 
> David Kachel <david@> wrote:
> >
> > ... about warm tone inks in the Epson 1400. ...
> 
> > (... I am in doubt as to what to do about loading ink into
> > a syringe after the ink level in the bottles gets below the 
> > length of the needle). 
> 
> Get a longer needle; use wide top 4 oz. bottles; pour the ink into a small beaker first; use a CIS with a funnel; whatever ...
> 
> > ... nozzle check first, .. all the nozzles show complete checks 
> > and all the colors are gray.
> 
> Good.  You may want to print a purge patter on plain paper to be sure the color at the top of the pattern is the same as at the bottom.  There is usually some residual ink in the heads after the initial switch from color to B&W.
> 
>  
> > At the time of purchase I did not know about the 
> > "bottom fill adaptor" and therefore went ahead without 
> > that step. So far it appears to have been unnecessary. 
> 
> You're lucky.  It may be that the latest carts are built to avoid the old bubble in the outlet problem.  That would be nice.
> 
> > ... you advised the following inks in the following
> > positions for maximum warm tone on matte cotton papers:
> > 
> > K = K4-4-K
> > C & M = K4-4-PK
> > LC & LM = K4-4-LK
> > Y = K4-4-LLK
> > 
> 
> MIS K4 glossy carbon inks are what I use for my very warm matte and "sepia" glossy printing.
> 
> > ... refresh my memory as to the options for
> > printing with regard to using Photoshop or QTR, profiles etc. 
> 
> > Easiest way,
> 
> Try the Epson driver.  You might try one where the printer controls the color handling.  Try Color Controls with gamma 2.2.  Use the highest quality printing options.
> 
> I prefer an ICC workflow.  For this you'll need to print with "No Color Adjustment" (with modern software, at least).  For the best printing a Photoshop image adjustment curve is embedded in the ICC.  I probably have some out there somewhere for this type of setup.  The ICCs are made with QTR's Create ICC-RGB.
> 
> QTR -- the rip -- is, of course, always the most flexible in terms of being able to control each ink separately, but you really don't need it for simple printing on matte or glossy coated papers with a monotone inkset like this.
> 
> I'm a big fan of the Epson 1400 (hopefully the 1430 takes the same profiles) as well as the Epson 1100 for desktop B&W.
> 
> Good luck with the system.  Let us know how it works out.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

Paul,

I don't know yet whether the 1430 uses the same profiles as the 1400.  I suspect it does.  The ink carts are the same.  

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <paulmwhiting@...> wrote:

>
> Hi Paul,
> 
> I know you spoke highly of the 1400 ... I think it came out about the time I bought my R1800. Lately I was looking up prices on the 1400 but it seems like it is no longer available, even as a refurb. Is that so? I couldn't find one anywhere.
> 
> I didn't know about the 1430, that must be the newer version of the 1400 - the wireless feature looks enticing. I'll do some research on that.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Paul
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > David Kachel <david@> wrote:
> > >
> > > ... about warm tone inks in the Epson 1400. ...
> > 
> > > (... I am in doubt as to what to do about loading ink into
> > > a syringe after the ink level in the bottles gets below the 
> > > length of the needle). 
> > 
> > Get a longer needle; use wide top 4 oz. bottles; pour the ink into a small beaker first; use a CIS with a funnel; whatever ...
> > 
> > > ... nozzle check first, .. all the nozzles show complete checks 
> > > and all the colors are gray.
> > 
> > Good.  You may want to print a purge patter on plain paper to be sure the color at the top of the pattern is the same as at the bottom.  There is usually some residual ink in the heads after the initial switch from color to B&W.
> > 
> >  
> > > At the time of purchase I did not know about the 
> > > "bottom fill adaptor" and therefore went ahead without 
> > > that step. So far it appears to have been unnecessary. 
> > 
> > You're lucky.  It may be that the latest carts are built to avoid the old bubble in the outlet problem.  That would be nice.
> > 
> > > ... you advised the following inks in the following
> > > positions for maximum warm tone on matte cotton papers:
> > > 
> > > K = K4-4-K
> > > C & M = K4-4-PK
> > > LC & LM = K4-4-LK
> > > Y = K4-4-LLK
> > > 
> > 
> > MIS K4 glossy carbon inks are what I use for my very warm matte and "sepia" glossy printing.
> > 
> > > ... refresh my memory as to the options for
> > > printing with regard to using Photoshop or QTR, profiles etc. 
> > 
> > > Easiest way,
> > 
> > Try the Epson driver.  You might try one where the printer controls the color handling.  Try Color Controls with gamma 2.2.  Use the highest quality printing options.
> > 
> > I prefer an ICC workflow.  For this you'll need to print with "No Color Adjustment" (with modern software, at least).  For the best printing a Photoshop image adjustment curve is embedded in the ICC.  I probably have some out there somewhere for this type of setup.  The ICCs are made with QTR's Create ICC-RGB.
> > 
> > QTR -- the rip -- is, of course, always the most flexible in terms of being able to control each ink separately, but you really don't need it for simple printing on matte or glossy coated papers with a monotone inkset like this.
> > 
> > I'm a big fan of the Epson 1400 (hopefully the 1430 takes the same profiles) as well as the Epson 1100 for desktop B&W.
> > 
> > Good luck with the system.  Let us know how it works out.
> > 
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> >
>

David,
>
> >> Try the Epson driver. You might try one where the printer controls the color handling. Try Color Controls with gamma 2.2. Use the highest quality printing options.


> 
> I am a bit befuddled by this. The printer has no way of 
> knowing it has grayscale instead of color inks in it. 
> Isn't it just going to print according to the colors in 
> the image instead of the gray tones?

OK, I assumed you were printing a grayscale file.  I use 21-step grayscale files to test and profile inkses.  See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/21-Step.jpg

 
> How do I get it to make best use of the grays? 

Let's start with a grayscale file and ignore RGB to GS conversion for now.

I think you asked for the easiest way to print.  Using the driver's built in profiles and the settings I suggested sometimes results in very good prints.  I know professional photographers who use this approach.

If the results are not good, then the next easiest, in my view, is to use an ICC with the Epson driver.  For this the settings are different.  You'd use "ICM/No Color Adjustment" in the driver and start with a Photoshop applied Adobe RGB profile in the PS print profile box.


> And since I have duplicate inks in the Cyan and Light Cyan channels,


You indicated your inks were as follows:

> K = K4-4-K
> C & M = K4-4-PK
> LC & LM = K4-4-LK
> Y = K4-4-LLK

C and LC are different, and by an amount that is matched to what the Epson driver expects in its built-in cross-overs.

> do those inks just sit there unused?

No, the Epson driver uses all channels when a grayscale file (R=G=B) is sent to it.  The driver is always in RGB mode.

> Are there no profiles for this printer and ink setup, or even
> something likely to be in the ballpark?

The Color Controls with Gamma 2.2 is in the ballpark and uses a built in profile.  It may be too light for you.

The next step -- the ICC -- if the Color Controls is not enough, involves making a custom ICC.


> I have run a couple of test prints on Arches Hot Press 
> and the blacks are decidedly gray and muddy. 

OK, if you're running Arches, forget the Epson driver and get QTR.

If you don't have a spectro and know how to profile, you're going to need help setting up this system. You can contact me off list for individualized consulting.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

>> Try the Epson driver. You might try one where the printer controls the color
handling. Try Color Controls with gamma 2.2. Use the highest quality printing
options.

I am a bit befuddled by this. The printer has no way of knowing it has
grayscale instead of color inks in it. Isn't it just going to print
according to the colors in the image instead of the gray tones?

How do I get it to make best use of the grays? And since I have duplicate
inks in the Cyan and Light Cyan channels, do those inks just sit there
unused? Are there no profiles for this printer and ink setup, or even
something likely to be in the ballpark?

I have run a couple of test prints on Arches Hot Press and the blacks are
decidedly gray and muddy. Any indications on how to proceed would be greatly
appreciated.


David Kachel

___________________

Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs

www.davidkachel.com
david@...

Gallery:
www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
director@...

PO Box  1893
Alpine, TX 79831
(432) 386-5787




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Epson.com

Seth

Sorry, not only Epson.  Atlex.com--faster shipping (free) and usually 
less bucks.

Seth


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

We just purchased up a 1430 on Friday for testing with a few of Paul's different mixes.  We can post our results later next week after we get a chance to test it.  We picked the 1430 up at Staples on sale for $219.99 after $80 rebate..

-Justin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <paulmwhiting@...> wrote:

>
> Hi Paul,
> 
> I know you spoke highly of the 1400 ... I think it came out about the time I bought my R1800. Lately I was looking up prices on the 1400 but it seems like it is no longer available, even as a refurb. Is that so? I couldn't find one anywhere.
> 
> I didn't know about the 1430, that must be the newer version of the 1400 - the wireless feature looks enticing. I'll do some research on that.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Paul
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > David Kachel <david@> wrote:
> > >
> > > ... about warm tone inks in the Epson 1400. ...
> > 
> > > (... I am in doubt as to what to do about loading ink into
> > > a syringe after the ink level in the bottles gets below the 
> > > length of the needle). 
> > 
> > Get a longer needle; use wide top 4 oz. bottles; pour the ink into a small beaker first; use a CIS with a funnel; whatever ...
> > 
> > > ... nozzle check first, .. all the nozzles show complete checks 
> > > and all the colors are gray.
> > 
> > Good.  You may want to print a purge patter on plain paper to be sure the color at the top of the pattern is the same as at the bottom.  There is usually some residual ink in the heads after the initial switch from color to B&W.
> > 
> >  
> > > At the time of purchase I did not know about the 
> > > "bottom fill adaptor" and therefore went ahead without 
> > > that step. So far it appears to have been unnecessary. 
> > 
> > You're lucky.  It may be that the latest carts are built to avoid the old bubble in the outlet problem.  That would be nice.
> > 
> > > ... you advised the following inks in the following
> > > positions for maximum warm tone on matte cotton papers:
> > > 
> > > K = K4-4-K
> > > C & M = K4-4-PK
> > > LC & LM = K4-4-LK
> > > Y = K4-4-LLK
> > > 
> > 
> > MIS K4 glossy carbon inks are what I use for my very warm matte and "sepia" glossy printing.
> > 
> > > ... refresh my memory as to the options for
> > > printing with regard to using Photoshop or QTR, profiles etc. 
> > 
> > > Easiest way,
> > 
> > Try the Epson driver.  You might try one where the printer controls the color handling.  Try Color Controls with gamma 2.2.  Use the highest quality printing options.
> > 
> > I prefer an ICC workflow.  For this you'll need to print with "No Color Adjustment" (with modern software, at least).  For the best printing a Photoshop image adjustment curve is embedded in the ICC.  I probably have some out there somewhere for this type of setup.  The ICCs are made with QTR's Create ICC-RGB.
> > 
> > QTR -- the rip -- is, of course, always the most flexible in terms of being able to control each ink separately, but you really don't need it for simple printing on matte or glossy coated papers with a monotone inkset like this.
> > 
> > I'm a big fan of the Epson 1400 (hopefully the 1430 takes the same profiles) as well as the Epson 1100 for desktop B&W.
> > 
> > Good luck with the system.  Let us know how it works out.
> > 
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> >
>