Digital BW, The Print

> Having used all three on different inks, printers, etc for well over a
> year, I've begun to wonder why and what is happening.
>
> I had a year of engineering chemistry 25 years ago, but the brain
> cells storing the info have long since shriveled up breathing stop
> bath and later sniffing ink bottles.
>
> I only remember that in the chem labs we always used a three step
> process to clean lab equipment. We rinsed with distilled H2O, alcohol,
> and I think- acetone. I don't remember the exact order, but alcohol
> was in the middle, because it is miscible in both polar and non-polar
> molecules. IOW, alcohol disolves both water based stuff and oil-ketone
> based stuff. Of couse we never used Windex or Fantastik, and these are
> composed of different substances mixed together.
>
> I'm starting to formulate some ideas to keep an average printer
> running MIS or PiezoBW inks happy. Putting drops on the Parking Pad
> has long been a favorite for everyone, for example. I'm trying to
> watch my printer very carefully as I have a lot of ink problems, more
> than most. To continue with this one example, as I live in an arid
> climate and high altitude (less air pressure), I might want to put
> drops on pad not only to clear a clog but as a preventative to keep it
> from drying out. Therefore, a solvent that not only would dissolve
> clogs but not evaporate quickly or leave a harmful residue (say a
> perfume) on pad would be desirable.
>
> That's just one example, but an important one. So, as this is beyond
> my knowledge, I'ld like to throw the question of the virtues of the
> various substances we use out to you chemistry folks, I know you're
> out there. Admittily, a complex issue.
>
> I'm currently using MIS VM inkset, but recognise this issue covers
> other inks as well. The only other thing that I could add as a guess
> is that I think MIS uses Epson dye base to make even their pig inks,
> but I'm not sure. If this is true, there's a good bet that diethylene
> glycol is in the mix, since Epson OEM carts have that info printed on
> them.
> Jim H.
>
>
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  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: erikhuneker 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 4:34 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Chemistry of Windex, Fantastik, 70%Alcohol


  I've been peaking on this GREAT newsgroup for 2 months now, learning 
  a lot, and finally something I can probably contribute to. Part of my 
  background is in flexo printing (the 50" web, 800 ft/min, 8-colors 
  CMYK, $5 million dollar type of machines) as well as chemistry, 
  amateur photograph and for 3 mths proud owner of a Canon S800 to get 
  started in digital printing.

  The inks we use in flexo printing are somewhat similar to the stuff 
  used for inkjets (some solvent, water, carrier and pigments etc...). 
  In my opinion, you certainly do NOT want to use the clear ink. It 
  contains the carrier(or base) with the solvents but no pigments, and 
  that carrier will dry and stick to the pad and to the printhead. Not 
  good...

  Jim, your comments were absolutely correct on acetone, water, 
  solvents evaporating etc... Most solvents that dissolve the 
  base/pigment combination (non-polar) do evaporate. Some that do not 
  are oils (as in olive oil, kitchen oils or motor oil). But they do 
  not have a good dissolving power, and if a liquid does not evaporate, 
  I am fairly sure that there will be some sticking to the printhead 
  and causing trouble printing.

  Try to go for the solvents that do evaporate the slowest, and for 
  that the glycols are the best option. Careful not to smell them too 
  much though, some are toxic...

  Hope this helped,
  Erik.

  PS: on a side question, is there anyone close to the Santa Monica 
  (CA) Area that has a shop displaying quads? I am printing BW (and 
  color) on my S800 using OEM (or MIS) dyes, on a variety of papers, 
  and after MUCH MUCH work/adjustments am happy with the results (no 
  metamerism that I can tell, no color cast except when on purpose, 
  nice blacks,...). I would like to compare that with some true quads 
  to see if it's worth converting...



  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "jimhayes361" 
  <jimhayes@j...> wrote:
  > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Todd Flashner 
  <tflash@e...> 
  > wrote:
  > > on 3/6/02 11:39 AM, jimhayes361 wrote:
  > > 
  > > > Therefore, a solvent that not only would dissolve
  > > > clogs but not evaporate quickly or leave a harmful residue (say 
  a
  > > > perfume) on pad would be desirable.
  > > 
  > > I don't know if it fits the bill but I would think the clear ink 
  > base that
  > > both MIS and Mediastreet sell (I don't know what MIS calls 
  theirs, 
  > but
  > > Mediastreet's is Jet Jrano) would be the safest thing.
  > 
  > You know, I WAS thinking of trying out some MIS clear base. I 
  didn't 
  > know it was Jrano, I thought that was more aggresive. Good point. I 
  > was thinking someone could elaborate on the base stock to the MIS 
  VM. 
  > 
  > > 
  > > I also wonder how many of our clogs are really due more to air 
  > blocks than
  > > inks blocks. It's hard to know because they can take similar 
  cures.
  > 
  > This is indeed the most frustrating thing about printers in 
  general: 
  > there's no way to isolate all the variables or find the exact 
  culprit- 
  > it hides behind at least two or three posible causes.
  >  
  >  Anyway, you know more 
  > about
  > > this than most of us so I'm really just asking.
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > When it comes to pig inks in a printhead, it's hocus-pocus. I had a 
  > problem or two like this at HP handed me: the answer is test, test, 
  > test, and statistics. That would be expensive for us to do, trying 
  to 
  > make our printers fail in numerous ways. I really have no answers. 
  I 
  > am trained to rake through comments made by others trying to 
  eliminate 
  > ambiguous or ill defined statements, and reformulate ideas to be 
  > understood. And have others do it to me (with much better 
  > alacrity<g>). If you work for HP R&D this happens every day you 
  show 
  > up- or it was the culture ten years ago. But I have no special 
  > knowledge, other than what I picked up here and the usual sites and 
  > people.
  > 
  > I'm at a loss with chemistry though, being a mechanical engineer, 
  and 
  > that ten years ago.
  > Jim H
  > 
  >  
  > > 
  > > Todd


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