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OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-13 by Paul

With my main/desktop crashed, a weak laptop, and not such a great backup routine, I wonder if laptops and commercial cloud back-up are at a place where they can work for the large digital files full frame cameras produce, as well as serious image editing and printing work.

I have a new hard disc that I'll  probably just stuff  into my existing Dell box, but the interruption of my work that this crash has caused has certainly gotten my attention.

I suppose there are 2 issues -- computer power and cloud backup -- that probably need to be dealt with individually.  

I must say, it's been a very long time since I've had a hard disk crash before retiring the computer  for other reasons.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-13 by jimbo

Hi Paul,
Constructively...this thing called the cloud is in it's early stages presently.. Frankly I think it's kind of a fad thing in a way.. but their are some honest benefits depending upon how you look at it.. At any rate first they have no liability with your data if they break. Second the concept of true security with ones work is still an issue.. Third  I don't know how large your working files are but mine are often quite large typically  so it's like watching paint dry uploading or downloading.. In concept if you had a 2 TB drive that was your home back up.. and you moved that to the cloud with typical connections it would a couple of days to upload or retrieve the data the process both ways is very slow as compared to what were used to. All that being said.. It is a form of back up but so is just having another disk loaded up and off site. 
Many people are working off laptops today... I'm not but many do.. The bigges issue is teh screen accuracy on most of them.. but most can run anothe rmonitor that can be color managed.. I don't know how much data you need to back up.. I have redundant back ups of all working files in house and also use SSD's for  a third BU that's off site.. (The price of these has really come down to where it makes sense ...even 64GB flash drives are cost effective today.. )
So how much data are we talking? 

jimbo
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Paul 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 2:55 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?


    
  With my main/desktop crashed, a weak laptop, and not such a great backup routine, I wonder if laptops and commercial cloud back-up are at a place where they can work for the large digital files full frame cameras produce, as well as serious image editing and printing work.

  I have a new hard disc that I'll probably just stuff into my existing Dell box, but the interruption of my work that this crash has caused has certainly gotten my attention.

  I suppose there are 2 issues -- computer power and cloud backup -- that probably need to be dealt with individually. 

  I must say, it's been a very long time since I've had a hard disk crash before retiring the computer for other reasons.

  Paul
  www.PaulRoark.com 



  
  No virus found in this message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
  Version: 2013.0.3336 / Virus Database: 3162/6320 - Release Date: 05/13/13


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-14 by Paul Grant

Paul and all,

The cloud is real and its hear to stay.     As internet bandwidth continues to increase you will see more and more cloud services.     My Comcast cable speed is routinely in the 35mbps range via wifi and approaches 50mbps.    Companies like Carbonite offer unlimited backup for less than $100 per year.    This should be viewed as OFF-Site backup rather than something you use often.    You do have the capability to download files from a remote client which makes it nice.

With the price of Disk Drives dropping there is no reason not to have a solid back up strategy.   I learned the hard way.   Currently I have a Netgear NAS Raid drive as my primary backup.      All files are backup automatically to this NAS drive as they are loaded on to my computer.    I then Monthly copy all files to a separate drive for storage off site.

Regards,
Paul
On May 13, 2013, at 3:04 PM, jimbo <mrjimbo@...> wrote:

> Hi Paul,
> Constructively...this thing called the cloud is in it's early stages presently.. Frankly I think it's kind of a fad thing in a way.. but their are some honest benefits depending upon how you look at it.. At any rate first they have no liability with your data if they break. Second the concept of true security with ones work is still an issue.. Third I don't know how large your working files are but mine are often quite large typically so it's like watching paint dry uploading or downloading.. In concept if you had a 2 TB drive that was your home back up.. and you moved that to the cloud with typical connections it would a couple of days to upload or retrieve the data the process both ways is very slow as compared to what were used to. All that being said.. It is a form of back up but so is just having another disk loaded up and off site. 
> Many people are working off laptops today... I'm not but many do.. The bigges issue is teh screen accuracy on most of them.. but most can run anothe rmonitor that can be color managed.. I don't know how much data you need to back up.. I have redundant back ups of all working files in house and also use SSD's for a third BU that's off site.. (The price of these has really come down to where it makes sense ...even 64GB flash drives are cost effective today.. )
> So how much data are we talking? 
> 
> jimbo
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Paul 
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
> Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 2:55 PM
> Subject: [Digital BW] OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?
> 
> With my main/desktop crashed, a weak laptop, and not such a great backup routine, I wonder if laptops and commercial cloud back-up are at a place where they can work for the large digital files full frame cameras produce, as well as serious image editing and printing work.
> 
> I have a new hard disc that I'll probably just stuff into my existing Dell box, but the interruption of my work that this crash has caused has certainly gotten my attention.
> 
> I suppose there are 2 issues -- computer power and cloud backup -- that probably need to be dealt with individually. 
> 
> I must say, it's been a very long time since I've had a hard disk crash before retiring the computer for other reasons.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2013.0.3336 / Virus Database: 3162/6320 - Release Date: 05/13/13
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-14 by Jayanand Govindaraj

It is cheaper to buy a few 4 TB external drives and backup on a continuous
basis - get a robust backup program - preferably from a trusted source you
expect to be in business for a long time to come, even if it is relatively
expensive. Once a week take a one time backup and send the physical drive
into off site storage (bank safety locker, or some such). Cloud remains
slow, and quite expensive for the more trustworthy names once your
requirements reaches multiple terabytes, because the pricing goes into the
realm of enterprise rates.

Have a look at this to narrow your requirements down:

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/productpicker/

If you have a Thunderbolt port on your machine, this might be the best bet
(for MAC or Windows) - it will give you blazing speed:

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=630

Cheers
Jayanand



On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 2:25 AM, Paul <roark.paul@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> With my main/desktop crashed, a weak laptop, and not such a great backup
> routine, I wonder if laptops and commercial cloud back-up are at a place
> where they can work for the large digital files full frame cameras produce,
> as well as serious image editing and printing work.
>
> I have a new hard disc that I'll probably just stuff into my existing Dell
> box, but the interruption of my work that this crash has caused has
> certainly gotten my attention.
>
> I suppose there are 2 issues -- computer power and cloud backup -- that
> probably need to be dealt with individually.
>
> I must say, it's been a very long time since I've had a hard disk crash
> before retiring the computer for other reasons.
>
> Paul
>


> 
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-14 by Joseph Meyerson

Just be prepared for when you have 6 TB of images on Carbonite, or some
other service.... and they announce they've been bought by Yahoo or Google;
Please download your stuff by 'going dark' at 5 pm?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-14 by Glenn

Paul,
Depending on your level of tech experience competence a program called ddresuce may allow you to recover irreplaceable data.

Scenario would be boot from a live Linux CD/DVD- any distribution, and use ddresuce to recover data from the crashed drive.

The process may take upwards of 24 hours, takes 15 minutes to initiate, not 24 hours fortunately. Then you leave it running.

The other option of professional data recovery can get very expensive very quickly

BTW monitor new drives closely for the first few months as there is a phenomenon called infant mortality.
Basically saying the ones that scraped through Q.C. fall off the perch early, then there's an established safe operating period of several years and the failure rate begins to rise again.

peace out

Glenn

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> It is cheaper to buy a few 4 TB external drives and backup on a continuous
> basis - get a robust backup program - preferably from a trusted source you
> expect to be in business for a long time to come, even if it is relatively
> expensive. Once a week take a one time backup and send the physical drive
> into off site storage (bank safety locker, or some such). Cloud remains
> slow, and quite expensive for the more trustworthy names once your
> requirements reaches multiple terabytes, because the pricing goes into the
> realm of enterprise rates.
> 
> Have a look at this to narrow your requirements down:
> 
> http://www.wdc.com/en/products/productpicker/
> 
> If you have a Thunderbolt port on your machine, this might be the best bet
> (for MAC or Windows) - it will give you blazing speed:
> 
> http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=630
> 
> Cheers
> Jayanand
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 2:25 AM, Paul <roark.paul@...> wrote:
> 
> > **
> >
> >
> > With my main/desktop crashed, a weak laptop, and not such a great backup
> > routine, I wonder if laptops and commercial cloud back-up are at a place
> > where they can work for the large digital files full frame cameras produce,
> > as well as serious image editing and printing work.
> >
> > I have a new hard disc that I'll probably just stuff into my existing Dell
> > box, but the interruption of my work that this crash has caused has
> > certainly gotten my attention.
> >
> > I suppose there are 2 issues -- computer power and cloud backup -- that
> > probably need to be dealt with individually.
> >
> > I must say, it's been a very long time since I've had a hard disk crash
> > before retiring the computer for other reasons.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> 
> 
> > 
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

RE: [Digital BW] OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-14 by EJ Neilsen

The cloud and portable data use.. While one might have a kick ass system at
home , there is only ONE home. Everything else is somewhere else. You don't
know the reliability until you use it. It might be close to as good a
connection as home. The cloud is fine for those in connected areas but to
say, it's here? Well travel to uncertain destinations and you'll soon see
what you have to reinvent for traveling.  Does that workflow make sense to
you? For some it might be a great way to work, and yet others might find it
to be a big ol monkey wrench and go down the road swearing their *&5684&*^&^
off. 

 

Speed is an issue and so is your intended output and access. Do you already
own your own web site? Store ANY thing there? Some services are really just
a duplicate of you already pay for, have access to, and never use , because
the IT guy said it was too hard for you. 

 

I'd be much more concerned about your software not working because you
cannot ping home to Adobe than I'd worry about your HD crashing again.  No
software you are now looking at a brick.

 

Eric Neilsen

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

214-827-8301

 

www.ericneilsenphotography.com

SKYPE ejprinter
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jimbo
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 5:05 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

 

  

Hi Paul,
Constructively...this thing called the cloud is in it's early stages
presently.. Frankly I think it's kind of a fad thing in a way.. but their
are some honest benefits depending upon how you look at it.. At any rate
first they have no liability with your data if they break. Second the
concept of true security with ones work is still an issue.. Third I don't
know how large your working files are but mine are often quite large
typically so it's like watching paint dry uploading or downloading.. In
concept if you had a 2 TB drive that was your home back up.. and you moved
that to the cloud with typical connections it would a couple of days to
upload or retrieve the data the process both ways is very slow as compared
to what were used to. All that being said.. It is a form of back up but so
is just having another disk loaded up and off site. 
Many people are working off laptops today... I'm not but many do.. The
bigges issue is teh screen accuracy on most of them.. but most can run
anothe rmonitor that can be color managed.. I don't know how much data you
need to back up.. I have redundant back ups of all working files in house
and also use SSD's for a third BU that's off site.. (The price of these has
really come down to where it makes sense ...even 64GB flash drives are cost
effective today.. )
So how much data are we talking? 

jimbo

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Paul 
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>  
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 2:55 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

With my main/desktop crashed, a weak laptop, and not such a great backup
routine, I wonder if laptops and commercial cloud back-up are at a place
where they can work for the large digital files full frame cameras produce,
as well as serious image editing and printing work.

I have a new hard disc that I'll probably just stuff into my existing Dell
box, but the interruption of my work that this crash has caused has
certainly gotten my attention.

I suppose there are 2 issues -- computer power and cloud backup -- that
probably need to be dealt with individually. 

I must say, it's been a very long time since I've had a hard disk crash
before retiring the computer for other reasons.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3336 / Virus Database: 3162/6320 - Release Date: 05/13/13

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-14 by Michael-K

Paul, you should take a look at CrashPlan (www.crashplan.com). I've used them for several years and have successfully recovered several files simply and without any issues. They charge $60/yr for unlimited storage. Their software also enables you to backup to an offsite computer located at a relative's or friend's location; this bypasses the CrashPlan cloud and there is no cost, nor do you need a subscription. The software is free.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-14 by Mark Savoia

I ditto CrashPlan, been using them since they started, excellent support too. If you have lots of files to start they offer a hard drive they ship to you to "seed" the process, send it back to them and continue with normal in the background backups. They charge for it of course (one time fee).

Mark
http://www.stillrivereditions.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On May 14, 2013, at 2:46 PM, Michael-K wrote:

> Paul, you should take a look at CrashPlan (www.crashplan.com). I've used them for several years and have successfully recovered several files simply and without any issues. They charge $60/yr for unlimited storage. Their software also enables you to backup to an offsite computer located at a relative's or friend's location; this bypasses the CrashPlan cloud and there is no cost, nor do you need a subscription. The software is free.
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-14 by Heyward Hart

Make it three cheers for Crash Plan. I use Time Machine to periodically backup my startup disk and I have two copies of my media drive. But I use Crash Plan as an offsite back up. It's less work and less expensive than keeping a third set of drives somewhere else and periodically bringing them to the studio, and it's proven useful several times when I needed to recover a file while out and about. An obvious alternative would be to set up your own NAS at a second location.

Hh

On May 14, 2013, at 11:58 AM, Mark Savoia <mark@...> wrote:

> I ditto CrashPlan, been using them since they started, excellent support too. If you have lots of files to start they offer a hard drive they ship to you to "seed" the process, send it back to them and continue with normal in the background backups. They charge for it of course (one time fee).
> 
> Mark
> http://www.stillrivereditions.com
> 
> On May 14, 2013, at 2:46 PM, Michael-K wrote:
> 
> > Paul, you should take a look at CrashPlan (www.crashplan.com). I've used them for several years and have successfully recovered several files simply and without any issues. They charge $60/yr for unlimited storage. Their software also enables you to backup to an offsite computer located at a relative's or friend's location; this bypasses the CrashPlan cloud and there is no cost, nor do you need a subscription. The software is free.
> > 
> 
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-14 by Freitag John

Paul,

Most of us have experienced hard disk crashes, sorry to hear about yours. My solution is to put all my photos and data on a RAID 1 (mirrored) array. Data are saved to both disks and, in the event that one dies, the data is still available on the other. You buy another disk to replace the failed drive, the RAID controller rebuilds the dataset and you are backed up on 2 disks again. 

It is also prudent to back up data off site of possible. Cloud backup is useful for this but not to rely upon exclusively.


John Freitag

Re: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-14 by jimbo

Paul.
In follow up of  John's post.. Mirroring is a safe, easy and sensible way to go.. If you have a total hardware crash with your mirrored drives you can still mount the good drive and retrieve data.. So if your files were relatively organized you can still pull them off easily in a make sense way..  Their are a lots of fancy ways to set up storage .. In truth hard disks are the most cost effective way to go..  Cloud storage , which has been the topic of this discussion,  I've fooled with it. in the end they can't do anywhere near as good a job as you could do if you choose to take responsibility for it.. It's not that big a deal in truth ...It's simply being responsible that 's all.. 

jimbo----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  From: Freitag John 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Cc: Freitag John 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 3:16 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?


    
  Paul,

  Most of us have experienced hard disk crashes, sorry to hear about yours. My solution is to put all my photos and data on a RAID 1 (mirrored) array. Data are saved to both disks and, in the event that one dies, the data is still available on the other. You buy another disk to replace the failed drive, the RAID controller rebuilds the dataset and you are backed up on 2 disks again. 

  It is also prudent to back up data off site of possible. Cloud backup is useful for this but not to rely upon exclusively.

  John Freitag


  
  No virus found in this message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
  Version: 2013.0.3336 / Virus Database: 3162/6323 - Release Date: 05/14/13


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-16 by johnfreitag

Another possibility is a $70 program called SpinriteĀ® available online from GRC.com. It has quite a reputation for recovering bombed disks (as long as they still run). You may have to let it run for days. The record (no kidding) is that it recovered a disk completely after running for 3 weeks! I'd give it a try. The last alternative is a commercial data recovery service but it is very expensive --- line $2,000.

Best of luck,
John

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Glenn" <glennrbarry@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Paul,
> Depending on your level of tech experience competence a program called ddresuce may allow you to recover irreplaceable data.
> 
> Scenario would be boot from a live Linux CD/DVD- any distribution, and use ddresuce to recover data from the crashed drive.
> 
> The process may take upwards of 24 hours, takes 15 minutes to initiate, not 24 hours fortunately. Then you leave it running.
> 
> The other option of professional data recovery can get very expensive very quickly
> 
> BTW monitor new drives closely for the first few months as there is a phenomenon called infant mortality.
> Basically saying the ones that scraped through Q.C. fall off the perch early, then there's an established safe operating period of several years and the failure rate begins to rise again.
> 
> peace out
> 
> Glenn
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand@> wrote:
> >
> > It is cheaper to buy a few 4 TB external drives and backup on a continuous
> > basis - get a robust backup program - preferably from a trusted source you
> > expect to be in business for a long time to come, even if it is relatively
> > expensive. Once a week take a one time backup and send the physical drive
> > into off site storage (bank safety locker, or some such). Cloud remains
> > slow, and quite expensive for the more trustworthy names once your
> > requirements reaches multiple terabytes, because the pricing goes into the
> > realm of enterprise rates.
> > 
> > Have a look at this to narrow your requirements down:
> > 
> > http://www.wdc.com/en/products/productpicker/
> > 
> > If you have a Thunderbolt port on your machine, this might be the best bet
> > (for MAC or Windows) - it will give you blazing speed:
> > 
> > http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=630
> > 
> > Cheers
> > Jayanand
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 2:25 AM, Paul <roark.paul@> wrote:
> > 
> > > **
> > >
> > >
> > > With my main/desktop crashed, a weak laptop, and not such a great backup
> > > routine, I wonder if laptops and commercial cloud back-up are at a place
> > > where they can work for the large digital files full frame cameras produce,
> > > as well as serious image editing and printing work.
> > >
> > > I have a new hard disc that I'll probably just stuff into my existing Dell
> > > box, but the interruption of my work that this crash has caused has
> > > certainly gotten my attention.
> > >
> > > I suppose there are 2 issues -- computer power and cloud backup -- that
> > > probably need to be dealt with individually.
> > >
> > > I must say, it's been a very long time since I've had a hard disk crash
> > > before retiring the computer for other reasons.
> > >
> > > Paul
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Re: [Digital BW] OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-17 by Tony Sleep

On 13/05/2013 21:55, Paul wrote:
> I must say, it's been a very long time since I've had a hard disk crash

What kind of crash Paul? If it still spins up, is not making unhealthy 
noises such as bearing gring or click of death (heads cannot calibrate , 
and is detected by the BIOS, there is a very good chance of easy recovery.

If the disk appears in the BIOS, but does not mount in the OS, the problem 
is nearly always a corrupted MBR and/or partition table. The drivers and 
OS cannot recognise the corrupt sector 0 as a drive.

In 90% of cases everything can be recovered without data loss. The disk 
can be returned to service as there is almost always nothing wrong with it 
at a hardware level. It was only corrupted in the first place by 
software/OS/drivers and/or power loss. The same applies to camera memory 
cards.

Provided you can get driverless access to them, they are generally easy to 
fix. I've recovered many such disks. I use Active Partition Recovery DOS 
version to erase the damaged MBR and partition table (with the IgnoreMBR 
parameter), then scan for files and recreate new healthy versions. This 
has always worked with NTFS, I think. The only partly unsuccessful 
recoveries were FAT, although all newer files were recovered that were 
missing from backups.

This also works to recover flash memory cards that the OS can't see due to 
MBR/PT corruption, but you need an IDE card reader so you can access the 
hardware direct. People usually throw perfectly good cards away, imagining 
they've somehow broken. It's seldom more than sector 0 corruption.

Where disk hardware is failing Spinrite is excellent. But that is much 
rarer, and the symptoms are usually obvious clicking or bearing noise, or 
simply not spinning up. Motor failures are rare, but platter bearings fail 
from heat and lubricant drying over many years.

You can be creatively destructive there. I had a laptop drive fail, 
clearly a platter bearing problem as it was noisy and eventually seized. I 
had good backups as insurance, but the newest was missing some recent 
work. Rather than spend a few hours redoing that, I bored a small hole 
through the casing in the bearing area with a scalpel and inserted 2 drops 
of WD40. I then removed the lid from the drive, and used a matchstick on 
the edge of the platter to nudge it into life. It span up perfectly! I was 
then able to clone the disk to a new one without errors.

I left it running to see how long it would last, and it was about 3hrs 
total before errors began to appear, and then it quickly degraded to 
roadkill in another hour. I had made no effort to reinstate a temporary 
lid to keep airborne particulates away, and this is far from a 'clean room'.

Worth a try if bearing seizure is the cause. A more cautious version would 
omit removing the lid, and simply let the bearing soak an hour or two. 
Light machine oil like 3in1 would be wiser than WD40, too.

I am not a fan of cloud offsite backup unless your needs are light. Photo 
data volumes are impractical. DSL & network speeds mean recovering a few 
TB could take weeks.

-- 
Regards

Tony Sleep
http://tonysleep.co.uk

Re: [Digital BW] OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-17 by Paul Roark

Hi Tony

Tony Sleep <TonySleep@...> wrote:

> **
>
> What kind of crash Paul? If it still spins up, is not making unhealthy
> noises such as bearing gring or click of death (heads cannot calibrate ,
> and is detected by the BIOS, there is a very good chance of easy recovery.
>

I suspect the disc is still usable.  There were no weird noises.  Most of
the sectors are still readable according to checkdisc.  Unfortunately, the
unreadable ones include the boot sector.  So, I have saved the disc in
hopes that I'll be able to use it as a second/data disc in the box.
 Unfortunately, the Dell tech people do not seem to be up to the task.  (In
fact, the 70% drop in Dell profit this last quarter is not a surprise at
all.  If they had actually stocked their shelves with parts and paid the
license fees to MS and others, the reported results would probably be much
worse.)



>
> If the disk appears in the BIOS, but does not mount in the OS, the problem
> is nearly always a corrupted MBR and/or partition table. The drivers and
> OS cannot recognise the corrupt sector 0 as a drive.
>

That goes a bit over my head, but when the "bad" disc was still in, the
diagnostics registered 2 SATA devices, which I assume was the C:/ drive and
the CD/DVD drive.  And, as I said, many if not most of the sectors were
reported as readable.  It appears the system is capable of 4 SATA devices.

What I probably need is the knowledge of how to get the disc back in the
box as a non-boot disc (I have a new C:/ drive that boots well), and I'll
probably need to know how to "cure" or work around the issues
that caused this.

I might add that for months before the disc "crashed" (could not boot), it
was attempting and failing to configure updates, presumably to Windows 7.
 The Dell tech people said this often precedes what they view as hard disc
failures.


>
> In 90% of cases everything can be recovered without data loss. The disk
> can be returned to service as there is almost always nothing wrong with it
> at a hardware level.
>

That would be nice, as my total restore from my Seagate backup did not
restore the software, Photoshop included.



> It was only corrupted in the first place by
> software/OS/drivers and/or power loss.
>

There are always warnings not to unplug a computer during the update
installations.  I have wondered if a blip in the power at one of these
times was behind it.  I don't have one of those devices that keeps the
power going at such times, and being in a rural area, the power grid is
prone to some very brief outages.

.
>
> Provided you can get driverless access to them, ...
>

Can you translate this for a non-techie?

It sounds like I have a good shot at this if I can find a good roadmap.

Thanks for the advice.  It is generally consistent with lay assumptions.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-17 by William Harvey

Dear Paul and others,

I just ran across this post and in the past I have "recovered" disks 
that stopped booting by running the full CHKDSK (it used to be called 
so) now it is called "Error Checking". In windows right click on the 
drive (presumably hooked up to an open drive port) and select 
properties\tools\"check now" and you will see a box like this:



Check both boxes and and click "start". The next time windows boots it 
will run "CHKDSK," on the selected drive, this may take quite a while 
depending on drive size.

Hope this helps and that I  am not butting in on this topic.

Cheers

***********************************************

On 5/17/2013 5:37 PM, Paul Roark wrote:
>
> Hi Tony
>
> Tony Sleep <TonySleep@... 
> <mailto:TonySleep%40halftone.co.uk>> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> > What kind of crash Paul? If it still spins up, is not making unhealthy
> > noises such as bearing gring or click of death (heads cannot calibrate ,
> > and is detected by the BIOS, there is a very good chance of easy 
> recovery.
> >
>
> I suspect the disc is still usable. There were no weird noises. Most of
> the sectors are still readable according to checkdisc. Unfortunately, the
> unreadable ones include the boot sector. So, I have saved the disc in
> hopes that I'll be able to use it as a second/data disc in the box.
> Unfortunately, the Dell tech people do not seem to be up to the task. (In
> fact, the 70% drop in Dell profit this last quarter is not a surprise at
> all. If they had actually stocked their shelves with parts and paid the
> license fees to MS and others, the reported results would probably be much
> worse.)
>
> >
> > If the disk appears in the BIOS, but does not mount in the OS, the 
> problem
> > is nearly always a corrupted MBR and/or partition table. The drivers and
> > OS cannot recognise the corrupt sector 0 as a drive.
> >
>
> That goes a bit over my head, but when the "bad" disc was still in, the
> diagnostics registered 2 SATA devices, which I assume was the C:/ 
> drive and
> the CD/DVD drive. And, as I said, many if not most of the sectors were
> reported as readable. It appears the system is capable of 4 SATA devices.
>
> What I probably need is the knowledge of how to get the disc back in the
> box as a non-boot disc (I have a new C:/ drive that boots well), and I'll
> probably need to know how to "cure" or work around the issues
> that caused this.
>
> I might add that for months before the disc "crashed" (could not boot), it
> was attempting and failing to configure updates, presumably to Windows 7.
> The Dell tech people said this often precedes what they view as hard disc
> failures.
>
> >
> > In 90% of cases everything can be recovered without data loss. The disk
> > can be returned to service as there is almost always nothing wrong 
> with it
> > at a hardware level.
> >
>
> That would be nice, as my total restore from my Seagate backup did not
> restore the software, Photoshop included.
>
> > It was only corrupted in the first place by
> > software/OS/drivers and/or power loss.
> >
>
> There are always warnings not to unplug a computer during the update
> installations. I have wondered if a blip in the power at one of these
> times was behind it. I don't have one of those devices that keeps the
> power going at such times, and being in a rural area, the power grid is
> prone to some very brief outages.
>
> .
> >
> > Provided you can get driverless access to them, ...
> >
>
> Can you translate this for a non-techie?
>
> It sounds like I have a good shot at this if I can find a good roadmap.
>
> Thanks for the advice. It is generally consistent with lay assumptions.
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> 

-- 
Default-WH

William Harvey

Mas de Cazes

Parisot 82160

France

05-63-24-19-36

+33 5 63-24-19-36

Lat. = 44 degrees, 15.1 minutes North

Long. = 1 degrees, 50.6 minutes East



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-17 by Matti Koskinen

On 17.5.2013 19:28, William Harvey wrote:
>
> Dear Paul and others,
>
> I just ran across this post and in the past I have "recovered" disks
> that stopped booting by running the full CHKDSK (it used to be called
> so) now it is called "Error Checking". In windows right click on the
> drive (presumably hooked up to an open drive port) and select
> properties\tools\"check now" and you will see a box like this:
>
> Check both boxes and and click "start". The next time windows boots it
> will run "CHKDSK," on the selected drive, this may take quite a while
> depending on drive size.
>
> Hope this helps and that I am not butting in on this topic.
>
> Cheers
>
hi,

I had a disk crash of my c:/ drive. It started making the computer very 
slow. Then it didn't boot at all. I took it out, and it was left a month 
or so. Had to install everything again, thankfully I had photos  on a 
backup drive, but Photoshop I had to install, among many different 
programs as well. I tried it bad disk again as another drive, and to my 
surprise I could restore half of the disk, before it crashed again. I 
let it cool, tried again and could restore the left.

There are many stories, even to put the disk in a freezer, and then 
reading data when the disk is very cold.

just my 2 cents

-matti



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-19 by Tony Sleep

On 17/05/2013 16:37, Paul Roark wrote:
> I suspect the disc is still usable. There were no weird noises. Most of
> the sectors are still readable according to checkdisc. Unfortunately, the
> unreadable ones include the boot sector.

This sounds promising. Chkdsk would not be able to access the disk if 
there was serious corruption or total hardware failure (though the disk 
may have hardware problems causing bad sectors).

However, restoring to a new disk from a backup/image containing PS always 
requires a reinstall over the top of the restored installation, because 
Adobe messes with sector 0 to register the activation to a particular hard 
drive. As the drive has changed, at the very least you'll need to 
reactivate PS again, and reinstall is necessary first.

Unfortunately the same is true of repair techniques outlined below. If you 
mess with the MBR (which Fixmbr does below), PS will likely lose its 
activation.

A reinstall over the top of the existing copy will retain all your 
customisations, settings. So DON'T uninstall PS unless you want those 
gone. It's really only PS activation that needs to get sorted out.

NB that if this does work, but you want to use PS on the new disk, you'll 
have to de-activate the version on the old disk because Adobe only allow 2 
concurrent activations - and you want to be able to activate the new 
without wasting the old. A right PITA. And a good reason to try and repair 
the old disk, because Adobe don't seem to have thought about drives dying. 
You have to phone them up and beg.

As a first attempt at repair:

If you have a boot CD or DVD of the OS (I assume Windows - Mac, no idea)
- remove your 'new' c:
- reinstate the old one
- boot from the OS CD/DVD (you may need to set the BIOS to allow boot from 
optical)
- when Win has booted you'll get an option to install Win or Run recovery 
console. Press 'R' to select Recovery Console
- at the Recovery console c:\>
-- c:\>fixboot [press RETURN]
-- c:\>chkdsk c: /R [press return]
    (nb /R parameter. Recovery Console chkdsk is different from the cmd 
version within Win, which would be chkdisk /F)
---If chkdsk hangs there are other problems, GoTo fixmbr below
---If it embarks on repairing scores of bad sectors, the disk is toast)
---If chkdsk completes, even after repairing some errors, this is good.
exit and see if the machine will now boot from HD.

(fixboot writes a new Windows Boot sector in case the old one had been 
corrupted and preventing Win from starting because it doesn't know where 
NTLDR is - the Win boot prog - and/or the Master File Tables (MFT) which 
tell the OS where the files are.

If still no good, repeat, only at the c:/>
--c:\>fixmbr [press RETURN]
(NB: fixmbr rewrites the Master Boot Record, which is what defines the 
disk as a disk and the filesystem used, eg FAT, NTFS. If the disk has only 
one partition this is safe, but if there are two or more it may cause one 
to become unavailable. Dells have a small hidden FAT16 partition full of 
Dell diagnostics right at the front of the disk. I have run Fixmbr without 
any problems, ie the hidden partition and C: remain untouched. Still, 
there is a risk. However that isn't a problem if you don't mind working 
with Active Partition Recovery free DOS version from 
http://www.partition-recovery.com/. But don't do that yet, only if you 
need it.
--c:\>fixboot [press return]
--c:\>chkdsk c: /R
(watch chkdsk for results as previously)
if chkdsk completes OK
REMOVE CD/DVD
---c:\exit
machine should now reboot and start Win from the HD, hopefully fully 
functional

If it still doesn't, or chkdsk hangs, then we're into using Active 
Partition Recovery DOS version next. The hardest bit of that is creating 
bootable media (floppy, CD or USB drive) that you put APR.exe on. It comes 
with some intructions about that. If you need to use APR, let me know and 
I'll tell you what next.

But try all the above and see whether Recovery Console stuff works, first.

-- 
Regards

Tony Sleep
http://tonysleep.co.uk

Re: [Digital BW] OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-19 by Paul Roark

Tony,

Thanks for the expertise.

At this point I'm up and running with the new C:/ drive, and most of the
data has been recovered from my backups.  PS installed fine.

Trying to minimize my downtime due to the problems, I'm inclined to see if
someone with an external drive bay might be able to recover the 2 files
that were not yet backed up and have about a day's work on them.  Other
than 2 specific files, I'm essentially back to where I was in most regards.

If the disc appears to still be good, I'll then try to install it as a D:/
drive.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com





On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 7:11 PM, Tony Sleep <TonySleep@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
> On 17/05/2013 16:37, Paul Roark wrote:
> > I suspect the disc is still usable. There were no weird noises. Most of
> > the sectors are still readable according to checkdisc. Unfortunately, the
> > unreadable ones include the boot sector.
>
> This sounds promising. Chkdsk would not be able to access the disk if
> there was serious corruption or total hardware failure (though the disk
> may have hardware problems causing bad sectors).
>
> However, restoring to a new disk from a backup/image containing PS always
> requires a reinstall over the top of the restored installation, because
> Adobe messes with sector 0 to register the activation to a particular hard
> drive. As the drive has changed, at the very least you'll need to
> reactivate PS again, and reinstall is necessary first.
>
> Unfortunately the same is true of repair techniques outlined below. If you
> mess with the MBR (which Fixmbr does below), PS will likely lose its
> activation.
>
> A reinstall over the top of the existing copy will retain all your
> customisations, settings. So DON'T uninstall PS unless you want those
> gone. It's really only PS activation that needs to get sorted out.
>
> NB that if this does work, but you want to use PS on the new disk, you'll
> have to de-activate the version on the old disk because Adobe only allow 2
> concurrent activations - and you want to be able to activate the new
> without wasting the old. A right PITA. And a good reason to try and repair
> the old disk, because Adobe don't seem to have thought about drives dying.
> You have to phone them up and beg.
>
> As a first attempt at repair:
>
> If you have a boot CD or DVD of the OS (I assume Windows - Mac, no idea)
> - remove your 'new' c:
> - reinstate the old one
> - boot from the OS CD/DVD (you may need to set the BIOS to allow boot from
> optical)
> - when Win has booted you'll get an option to install Win or Run recovery
> console. Press 'R' to select Recovery Console
> - at the Recovery console c:\>
> -- c:\>fixboot [press RETURN]
> -- c:\>chkdsk c: /R [press return]
> (nb /R parameter. Recovery Console chkdsk is different from the cmd
> version within Win, which would be chkdisk /F)
> ---If chkdsk hangs there are other problems, GoTo fixmbr below
> ---If it embarks on repairing scores of bad sectors, the disk is toast)
> ---If chkdsk completes, even after repairing some errors, this is good.
> exit and see if the machine will now boot from HD.
>
> (fixboot writes a new Windows Boot sector in case the old one had been
> corrupted and preventing Win from starting because it doesn't know where
> NTLDR is - the Win boot prog - and/or the Master File Tables (MFT) which
> tell the OS where the files are.
>
> If still no good, repeat, only at the c:/>
> --c:\>fixmbr [press RETURN]
> (NB: fixmbr rewrites the Master Boot Record, which is what defines the
> disk as a disk and the filesystem used, eg FAT, NTFS. If the disk has only
> one partition this is safe, but if there are two or more it may cause one
> to become unavailable. Dells have a small hidden FAT16 partition full of
> Dell diagnostics right at the front of the disk. I have run Fixmbr without
> any problems, ie the hidden partition and C: remain untouched. Still,
> there is a risk. However that isn't a problem if you don't mind working
> with Active Partition Recovery free DOS version from
> http://www.partition-recovery.com/. But don't do that yet, only if you
> need it.
> --c:\>fixboot [press return]
> --c:\>chkdsk c: /R
> (watch chkdsk for results as previously)
> if chkdsk completes OK
> REMOVE CD/DVD
> ---c:\exit
> machine should now reboot and start Win from the HD, hopefully fully
> functional
>
> If it still doesn't, or chkdsk hangs, then we're into using Active
> Partition Recovery DOS version next. The hardest bit of that is creating
> bootable media (floppy, CD or USB drive) that you put APR.exe on. It comes
> with some intructions about that. If you need to use APR, let me know and
> I'll tell you what next.
>
> But try all the above and see whether Recovery Console stuff works, first.
>
>
> --
> Regards
>
> Tony Sleep
> http://tonysleep.co.uk
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-19 by Tony Sleep

On 19/05/2013 04:01, Paul Roark wrote:
> At this point I'm up and running with the new C:/ drive, and most of the
> data has been recovered from my backups. PS installed fine.

Fair enough. Don't try the Recovery Console Fixboot and Fixmbr if you put 
the old drive in a USB case. They only act on the C: which will be your 
new drive. APR won't work on USB either.	

-- 
Regards

Tony Sleep
http://tonysleep.co.uk

Re: [Digital BW] OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-19 by Sam McCandless

Congratulations, Paul, and good luck with the rest of the recovery,  
which I hope is both swift and complete. I'm sorry I couldn't help,  
but I'm still Mac-based and also trying to stay well back from the  
bleeding edge. Thanks again for all your generous help,  
experimentation, and flexibility.
--
Sam
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On May 18, 2013, at 8:01 PM, Paul Roark wrote:

> Tony,
>
> Thanks for the expertise.
>
> At this point I'm up and running with the new C:/ drive, and most of  
> the
> data has been recovered from my backups.  PS installed fine.
>
> Trying to minimize my downtime due to the problems, I'm inclined to  
> see if
> someone with an external drive bay might be able to recover the 2  
> files
> that were not yet backed up and have about a day's work on them.   
> Other
> than 2 specific files, I'm essentially back to where I was in most  
> regards.
>
> If the disc appears to still be good, I'll then try to install it as  
> a D:/
> drive.
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-19 by Paul Roark

Thanks to all for the help here.

While I'm mostly back to where I was with a rather traditional Win box and
USB external drives for backups, I learned a lot.

Actually the first improvement I may look at is a higher speed internet
connection that might facilitate professional off-site backup.  The DSL in
my small community is weak -- OK for one streaming video only.  So, my
household needs a second connection anyway (sign of the times, I suppose).
FIOS is not in the area, but Comcast cable may have higher speed options
than the old copper wire phone system we now use.  So, exploring higher
speed internet access and off-site backup options are near the top of my To
Do list.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-19 by Truman Prevatt

A company I consult with has a large disk farm that is devoted to digital signal processing applications.  All their disk are mirrored raids which are hot switchable.  Their statistics show that
with mechanical drives larger than 1 TB the live expectancy for a drive is about 18 to 24 months.  They have real time monitoring that detects when a disk starts to have issues and replaces it before it fails. 

After my iMac had a disk crash, I decided I'm not going to worry about this.  SSD disk are not economically viable.  However, they are not viable for the large storage requirements that a Nikon D800E requires or scans from a 4x5.  I recently got a Macbook Pro Retina display with 16 GB of memory and a 512 SSD.  It is very capable for my research and it is quite a capable computer for image processing.  I bought a Thunderbolt display and a thunderbolt raid and configured it as a 3 TB mirrored raid.  I have code running to monitor the raid and when if one of the drives has an issue, I can hot swap it.  The raid is used for all the photo storage.  The beauty of the thunderbolt buss is you can daisy chain multiple devices.  

The applications and the Aperture libraries I am currently working on are stored on the SSD and after finished moved to the raid if I want to keep them. 

When I am home, I close the laptop up sit it in a stand, plug in the TB display with the raid disk plugged into it and use a blue tooth track pad and keyboard.  When I travel, I eject the disk, pull the TB display from the port and take the laptop with me.  I am quite happy with this setup and it also minimizes losing something important. 

T

On May 13, 2013, at 4:55 PM, Paul <roark.paul@...> wrote:

> With my main/desktop crashed, a weak laptop, and not such a great backup routine, I wonder if laptops and commercial cloud back-up are at a place where they can work for the large digital files full frame cameras produce, as well as serious image editing and printing work.
> 
> I have a new hard disc that I'll probably just stuff into my existing Dell box, but the interruption of my work that this crash has caused has certainly gotten my attention.
> 
> I suppose there are 2 issues -- computer power and cloud backup -- that probably need to be dealt with individually. 
> 
> I must say, it's been a very long time since I've had a hard disk crash before retiring the computer for other reasons.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> 

--
"I cannot call to mind a single instance where I have ever been irreverent, except toward the things which were sacred to other people." - Mark Twain 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-20 by Paul Roark

Truman,

My research brought me to about the same place.  Are the Haswell chips
being used yet?


Truman Prevatt <tprevatt@...> wrote:

... statistics show that with mechanical drives larger than 1 TB the live
> expectancy for a drive is about 18 to 24 months.


That sucks.  Maybe that is why Dell no longer stocked the 1.5 TB drive I
had in the box.  The replacement they had is one TB.



>  ... Macbook Pro Retina display with 16 GB of memory and a 512 SSD.  It is
> very capable ...  The raid is used for all the photo storage.  The beauty
> of the thunderbolt buss is you can daisy chain multiple devices.
>

Macs seem to use a proprietary version of the Thunderbolt.  I will probably
wait for the more generic versions to hit the market (as well as the
Haswell).


> ... I am quite happy with this setup and it also minimizes losing
> something important.
>

Do you have any off-site backup?  I've never lost anything to fire, but
always lived in fire-prone areas.  So, like with earthquakes, it's a risk I
try to prepare for.

Thanks for posting.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-20 by Bert

Sorry to be just chiming now but I have not been following the whole thread.  That said I have worked with computers for over 45 years, 30 years with the FRB in Washington.  We handled massive amounts of data.  I learned the hard way, while still at the FRB, that hard drives fail.  And the systems group backup of my machine had not been working.  I had to make up 3 weeks of work plus all emails were lost permanently.  

On my PC here at home I have software that does a mirror backup of my primary drives to external drives every 6 hours.  Mirror backups, IMHO, are the only way to go.  Proprietary format catalogs are risky.  Companies go out of business or abandon software. With a mirror copy I can unplug an external drive, simply plug it into any old other PC and be able to read it.  I keep 2 sets of external drives.  One is for current backup and one in the safe deposit box at the bank.  I swap the sets once a month.  

I use Acronis to back up the OS (total C Drive mirror).  I use ViceVersa to back up the 3 data HDDs.  I have used these 2 programs for years with out any problems.  I have used the Acronis backups of the OS to recover from varous OS problems including viruses.

When and that is not if, a drive dies I simply go out and buy a replacement and plug it in. 

I hope this is of some help.
BertGF 


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Paul Roark <roark.paul@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Truman,
> 
> My research brought me to about the same place.  Are the Haswell chips
> being used yet?
> 
> 
> Truman Prevatt <tprevatt@...> wrote:
> 
> ... statistics show that with mechanical drives larger than 1 TB the live
> > expectancy for a drive is about 18 to 24 months.
> 
> 
> That sucks.  Maybe that is why Dell no longer stocked the 1.5 TB drive I
> had in the box.  The replacement they had is one TB.
> 
> 
> 
> >  ... Macbook Pro Retina display with 16 GB of memory and a 512 SSD.  It is
> > very capable ...  The raid is used for all the photo storage.  The beauty
> > of the thunderbolt buss is you can daisy chain multiple devices.
> >
> 
> Macs seem to use a proprietary version of the Thunderbolt.  I will probably
> wait for the more generic versions to hit the market (as well as the
> Haswell).
> 
> 
> > ... I am quite happy with this setup and it also minimizes losing
> > something important.
> >
> 
> Do you have any off-site backup?  I've never lost anything to fire, but
> always lived in fire-prone areas.  So, like with earthquakes, it's a risk I
> try to prepare for.
> 
> Thanks for posting.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-20 by Ben Schneider

I have had hard drives die because of a voltage increase.  Mechanically they seem fine, but the board which controls them gets smoked.  There is no way of recovering those files without replace the controlling electronics board.

I had the power company lose my neutral to the service to my studio.  It smoked five hard drives and a G5 when the voltage went up to 147 volts.  I have power conditioners on all my computers now!  I had surge protectors on everything before, but they do not handle these slow voltage increases.

Sent from my iPad

Re: [Digital BW] OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-20 by Truman Prevatt

It is the same Thunderbolt.  Apple was involved with the development and because of that they got a one year period where Intel would only sell it to 
Apple.  It is now coming on line with other vendors.  The Haswell chips have some power advantages to the Ivy Bridge.  The Intel internal HD4000 GPU can grunt a bit when 
pushing a lot of pixels - although a lot of people drive two 27 inch displays with it.  The Macbook Pro 15 inch with Retina display also has a high end Nvidia GPU card which is used
for the heavy graphic lifting.  However, I am quite happy with my Macbook as far as battery life.  

Intel is not planning on introducing an upgrade to Thunderbolt until 2014.  However, 10 Gbits/sec over copper is  not shabby.  Thunderbolt will support 20 Gbits/sec over fiber.  The beauty is the ability to daisy chain devices, monitors, disk drives, etc.  

Truman

On May 19, 2013, at 8:05 PM, Paul Roark <roark.paul@...> wrote:

> Truman,
> 
> My research brought me to about the same place. Are the Haswell chips
> being used yet?
> 
> Truman Prevatt <tprevatt@...> wrote:
> 
> ... statistics show that with mechanical drives larger than 1 TB the live
> > expectancy for a drive is about 18 to 24 months.
> 
> That sucks. Maybe that is why Dell no longer stocked the 1.5 TB drive I
> had in the box. The replacement they had is one TB.
> 
> > ... Macbook Pro Retina display with 16 GB of memory and a 512 SSD. It is
> > very capable ... The raid is used for all the photo storage. The beauty
> > of the thunderbolt buss is you can daisy chain multiple devices.
> >
> 
> Macs seem to use a proprietary version of the Thunderbolt. I will probably
> wait for the more generic versions to hit the market (as well as the
> Haswell).
> 
> > ... I am quite happy with this setup and it also minimizes losing
> > something important.
> >
> 
> Do you have any off-site backup? I've never lost anything to fire, but
> always lived in fire-prone areas. So, like with earthquakes, it's a risk I
> try to prepare for.
> 
> Thanks for posting.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 

--
"Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority, it is time to reform." - Mark Twain



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-21 by Bert

I have had good luck with external drives that have apparently died by opening up the case and taking out the naked drive.  Yup it's just an internal drive in a case even it was assembled at the factory.  I buy a new case and slip it in.  That has worked for me several times.  

BertGF

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ben Schneider <benjschneider2@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I have had hard drives die because of a voltage increase.  Mechanically they seem fine, but the board which controls them gets smoked.  There is no way of recovering those files without replace the controlling electronics board.
> 
> I had the power company lose my neutral to the service to my studio.  It smoked five hard drives and a G5 when the voltage went up to 147 volts.  I have power conditioners on all my computers now!  I had surge protectors on everything before, but they do not handle these slow voltage increases.
> 
> Sent from my iPad
>

Re: [Digital BW] OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-21 by Bert

Question: Can one equip a PC for Thunderbolt simply by adding a PCI card?  Or does it require a new Bios or new motherboard?  

I just bought a Seagate USB 3.0 drive.  The literature said it could be modified to be Thunderbolt by purchasing a replacement unit for the bottom USB 3.0 unit.

Thunderbolt is reputed to be twice as fast as USB 3.0.  

BertGF



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Truman Prevatt <tprevatt@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> It is the same Thunderbolt.  Apple was involved with the development and because of that they got a one year period where Intel would only sell it to 
> Apple.  It is now coming on line with other vendors.  The Haswell chips have some power advantages to the Ivy Bridge.  The Intel internal HD4000 GPU can grunt a bit when 
> pushing a lot of pixels - although a lot of people drive two 27 inch displays with it.  The Macbook Pro 15 inch with Retina display also has a high end Nvidia GPU card which is used
> for the heavy graphic lifting.  However, I am quite happy with my Macbook as far as battery life.  
> 
> Intel is not planning on introducing an upgrade to Thunderbolt until 2014.  However, 10 Gbits/sec over copper is  not shabby.  Thunderbolt will support 20 Gbits/sec over fiber.  The beauty is the ability to daisy chain devices, monitors, disk drives, etc.  
>

Re: [Digital BW] OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-21 by Paul Roark

I borrowed a Thermaltake BlakX (see
http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/storage.aspx for the current version)
external drive bay to access my old drive.  The old drive appears to
physically work, with the caveat that I can't enter the PW to get to my
user data; so it's useless.  I also notice that the drive gets very hot.

What is the view of these external drive bays.  It would seem to cut the
cost in half compared to buying the small external backup drives. Good
third party backup software seems to be part of the formula. The BlakX
drive bays still suffer from the slow USB connection.  I suppose when
Thunderbolt is more universal they will go to that connection as an
alternative.  If so, that might make the backups made today much easier to
use in the future (unlike the small backup drives that will be stuck with
their USB connections).

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-21 by EJ Neilsen

You can also find in many higher end boxes available power and sata
connection already available to add an additional drive OUT the box. Just
get a nice little fan to keep it cool. It will look like another INTERNAL
drive in every way so hot swapping is out but you can do a power off and on
if you need to switch it out during the day.  I have tried the Nexstar
external swap station and I think I lost a drive because of bad power
connections - off and on and off and on.. 

 

Eric Neilsen

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

214-827-8301

 

www.ericneilsenphotography.com

SKYPE ejprinter
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Roark
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 9:34 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

 

  

I borrowed a Thermaltake BlakX (see
http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/storage.aspx for the current version)
external drive bay to access my old drive. The old drive appears to
physically work, with the caveat that I can't enter the PW to get to my
user data; so it's useless. I also notice that the drive gets very hot.

What is the view of these external drive bays. It would seem to cut the
cost in half compared to buying the small external backup drives. Good
third party backup software seems to be part of the formula. The BlakX
drive bays still suffer from the slow USB connection. I suppose when
Thunderbolt is more universal they will go to that connection as an
alternative. If so, that might make the backups made today much easier to
use in the future (unlike the small backup drives that will be stuck with
their USB connections).

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I still have some Piezotone inks for sale

2013-05-22 by Mark Savoia

Approximate 16 oz. DARK GRAY Selenium $30
Approximate 8 oz. MEDIUM GRAY Selenium $15

The PORTFOLIO BLACK has been sold.

Plus $5 shipping fee. E-mail me OFFLINE ONLY.
mark@...stillrivereditions.com

Thanks.

Re: [Digital BW] OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-22 by ElEstudio

Hi Paul,

>The old drive appears to
> physically work, with the caveat that I can't enter the PW to get to my
> user data; so it's useless. I also notice that the drive gets very hot.
 I had this same situation happen and from what you describe, your disk still has one chance. Borrow a mac and read the disk from a mac. You wont need your password, just get to the folders you need and copy them. 
I hope it works for you, it did for me!

Pablo

Re: [Digital BW] OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-22 by jimbo

Hi Paul,
I  don't know what Platform / OS your running.. The password issue is due to your using a different machine.. so a security issue.. If the drive is still functional their are a few things you can try.. So help with the OS / Platform question.. 

jimbo

To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 8:33 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?


    
  I borrowed a Thermaltake BlakX (see
  http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/storage.aspx for the current version)
  external drive bay to access my old drive. The old drive appears to
  physically work, with the caveat that I can't enter the PW to get to my
  user data; so it's useless. I also notice that the drive gets very hot.

  What is the view of these external drive bays. It would seem to cut the
  cost in half compared to buying the small external backup drives. Good
  third party backup software seems to be part of the formula. The BlakX
  drive bays still suffer from the slow USB connection. I suppose when
  Thunderbolt is more universal they will go to that connection as an
  alternative. If so, that might make the backups made today much easier to
  use in the future (unlike the small backup drives that will be stuck with
  their USB connections).

  Paul
  www.PaulRoark.com

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



  
  No virus found in this message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
  Version: 2013.0.3343 / Virus Database: 3162/6343 - Release Date: 05/21/13


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-22 by Paul Roark

Thanks Pablo, I'll give that a try; I just bought a MacBook Pro for my
daughter yesterday.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 8:07 AM, ElEstudio <elestudio@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Hi Paul,
>
>
> >The old drive appears to
> > physically work, with the caveat that I can't enter the PW to get to my
> > user data; so it's useless. I also notice that the drive gets very hot.
> I had this same situation happen and from what you describe, your disk
> still has one chance. Borrow a mac and read the disk from a mac. You wont
> need your password, just get to the folders you need and copy them.
> I hope it works for you, it did for me!
>
> Pablo
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-22 by jcphoto52

Hi Paul

Being on a Mac, I did that a lot of time for my PC friends; in any event, I bought an empty unit who can take a IDE drive and another one taking a ATA or SATA drive. These units are giving power to the HD and the output is either FireWire or USB. Great to recover HD's.

Good luck

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Paul Roark <roark.paul@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Thanks Pablo, I'll give that a try; I just bought a MacBook Pro for my
> daughter yesterday.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 8:07 AM, ElEstudio <elestudio@...> wrote:
> 
> > **
> >
> >
> > Hi Paul,
> >
> >
> > >The old drive appears to
> > > physically work, with the caveat that I can't enter the PW to get to my
> > > user data; so it's useless. I also notice that the drive gets very hot.
> > I had this same situation happen and from what you describe, your disk
> > still has one chance. Borrow a mac and read the disk from a mac. You wont
> > need your password, just get to the folders you need and copy them.
> > I hope it works for you, it did for me!
> >
> > Pablo
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [Digital BW] OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-22 by Paul Roark

ElEstudio <elestudio@...> wrote:

> **
> ... Borrow a mac and read the disk from a mac. You won't need your
> password, just get to the folders you need and copy them. ...
>

It worked perfectly. Thank you.  So the PW protected "crashed" Win7 C:
drive just became an external backup.  The Thermaltake BlakX USB base
worked fine with the Mac.  At least for simply dragging and dropping Tiff
files to a flash drive, everything seemed quite compatible.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-23 by Glenn

Hi Paul,

to get access to your data, change the ownership permissions - basically set yourself as the new owner of the folder and apply the change to all files and folders within that folder

peace out

Glenn

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Paul Roark <roark.paul@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I borrowed a Thermaltake BlakX (see
> http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/storage.aspx for the current version)
> external drive bay to access my old drive.  The old drive appears to
> physically work, with the caveat that I can't enter the PW to get to my
> user data; so it's useless.  I also notice that the drive gets very hot.
> 
> What is the view of these external drive bays.  It would seem to cut the
> cost in half compared to buying the small external backup drives. Good
> third party backup software seems to be part of the formula. The BlakX
> drive bays still suffer from the slow USB connection.  I suppose when
> Thunderbolt is more universal they will go to that connection as an
> alternative.  If so, that might make the backups made today much easier to
> use in the future (unlike the small backup drives that will be stuck with
> their USB connections).
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: OT - Laptop and cloud image editing?

2013-05-23 by ElEstudio

It's very good news, I'm glad it worked for you too!!!
The feeling of knowing your files are safe is a real joy... Next step is a good backup strategy.

Have a nice day,

Pablo
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> It worked perfectly. Thank you.  So the PW protected "crashed" Win7 C:
> drive just became an external backup.  The Thermaltake BlakX USB base
> worked fine with the Mac.  At least for simply dragging and dropping Tiff
> files to a flash drive, everything seemed quite compatible.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.