Digital BW, The Print

Jim,

You asked:

>... is this limited to certain printers with Piezo driver? Would
>results be equally impressive with 7000, 1280, 1160, and are ink
>versions even available for both 4 and 6 ink printers?

The Piezo system uses the same inks for the 4 and 6 ink printers.  So, the
FS inks work with any Piezo system.

The quad printers -- 1160 and 3000 -- can also print FS inks with the Epson
driver, using RGB Photoshop image adjustment curves.  I actually prefer the
Epson driver with my 3000 for a variety of reasons, but I understand why
some prefer the Piezo driver.

As of now, there is no Epson driver workflow for FS or Piezo inks that works
with hextone printers.  The use of the same density inks in the magenta and
light/photo magenta (likewise cyan/photo cyan) positions makes it impossible
to get acceptable results from the Epson driver in hextone printers.  I'm
not sure there is enough demand for anyone to bother with making light/photo
FS inks and the curves for the hextone printers.

If ColorByte and/or others support the MIS VM inks for the hextones, there
would be no advantage to the Piezo approach over the VM approach.

Frankly, I think a monotone hextone is a waste of printer capacity.  With a
hextone, one can make a variable-tone RIP that uses both the cool and sepia
toners.  I'll help anyone do this, and there may now be two groups pursuing
the approach.  On a hextone, you can go both ways with no dots at all and no
crossovers.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

In a message dated 3/8/2002 8:02:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
kmcelhaney@... writes:


>  I just got a new 7000 and was considering the 
> Piezo and imageprint RIP software to run with my MIS sepia/neutral 
> inksets.

Does anyone know if the Imageprint 4 can run the MIS Sepia inks without curve 
adjustments etc.? I am a technically challenged type . I love the piezo rip, 
it's pretty much plug and play. Is there a chance that the Imageprint 4 could 
make printing sepia easy?
Thanks for any help with this issue.
George J Kunze


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mike, I waited 18 months for the neutral inkset Jon said was coming "Real Soon now".

Never came.

MIS inks are every bit the equal of cone inks without the clogging or green problem.
Love 'em.

Jerry




mkravit wrote:

> Tom and others,
>
> OK, here are my thoughts.
>
> I have been awaiting Cones selenium inks for almost a year. Reminds
> me of Vaporware the software people are constantly announcing. ...

ImagePrint 4 will run Lyson Quads, Cone Piezo Quads, and MIS FS & FS Neutral Inks. I don't know if MIS has a FS Sepia out yet. It WILL NOT run the MIS Sepia VM inks at this time.

Regards,

Michael J. Kravit
Architect/Photographer
Boca Raton, Florida
www.kravit.net

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: toomagenta@... 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 10:39 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: MIS Full Spectrum Neutral Inks - Absolutely Impressive


  In a message dated 3/8/2002 8:02:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
  kmcelhaney@... writes:


  >  I just got a new 7000 and was considering the 
  > Piezo and imageprint RIP software to run with my MIS sepia/neutral 
  > inksets.

  Does anyone know if the Imageprint 4 can run the MIS Sepia inks without curve 
  adjustments etc.? I am a technically challenged type . I love the piezo rip, 
  it's pretty much plug and play. Is there a chance that the Imageprint 4 could 
  make printing sepia easy?
  Thanks for any help with this issue.
  George J Kunze


  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Micheal,

I've heard so many horror stories about cone inks that I think they are a disaster waiting to happen. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if, after a certain amount of time, everybody who is using them will either start getting clogs, or greenies. I understand his yellow has huge clogging problems.  I went with the MIS Variable tone Hextone inks, Paul Roark's workflow, and never looked back. Never had a serious clog with the MIS inkset,
either color or black and white. Now Paul has come out with a Sepia to neutral curve, so everybody can be happy!



Jerry


Michael Kravit wrote:

> Jerry,
>
> I had a board meeting at the Palm Beach Photographic Centre this morning. This past week George DeWolfe taught a Piezo Quadtone printing workshop for us. He spent all day last Saturday trying to unclog 3 Epson 1200's that were loaded with the Piezo inks. Unfortunately he was not able to do so and it almost resulted in a disaster for the workshop. Fortunately one of the participants lived locally and brought her Epson 3000 in for the week.
>
> We now have to throw away three Epson 1200's. Our director has said that she will not allow Piezo inks to be used in any of our printers again. We will switch to possibly MIS if we do Quadtone workshops in the future. Dan Burkholder is teaching for us next week and he will not be using Cone inks.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael J. Kravit
> Architect/Photographer
> Boca Raton, Florida
> www.kravit.net
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Jerry Olson
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 12:05 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: MIS Full Spectrum Neutral Inks - Absolutely Impressive
>
>   Mike, I waited 18 months for the neutral inkset Jon said was coming "Real Soon now".
>
>   Never came.
>
>   MIS inks are every bit the equal of cone inks without the clogging or green problem.
>   Love 'em.
>
>   Jerry
>
>   mkravit wrote:
>
>   > Tom and others,
>   >
>   > OK, here are my thoughts.
>   >
>   > I have been awaiting Cones selenium inks for almost a year. Reminds
>   > me of Vaporware the software people are constantly announcing. ...
>
>   Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>   Please follow these basic guidelines:
>   - Include your full name with your message.
>   - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>   - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
>   - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
>   - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
>   - Complete your Yahoo profile.
>   - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Eric,

You wrote:

>I am new to this group ...

Welcome.

>1) with regard to the MIS FS neutral inks, at one point they are
>described at graphite grey, which sounds great, then again as
>comparing to a selenium toned silver print, not so good for me. Which
>is it?

The tone is close to the average midtone of a lightly-selenium-toned Kodak
Polymax Fine Art fiber-based silver print.  I tone my silver prints for 3
minutes in selenium 1:19, more for archival values than looks.  I think that
is fairly standard practice (although the archival effectiveness of such is
now open to question).  So, we're not talking about a heavy toning here.
It's fairy neutral gray with a hair of coolness.

>2) People have recommended the Niagara CIS system in combination with
>MIS inks. What is wrong with the MIS continuous ink system? It's
>cheaper. Does the Niagara offer any advantages?

I asked a similar question a couple of months ago.  The responses from those
who used the MIS version were fairly positive.  At that time the CIS 1280
chip-busting method seemed better.  MIS may have cured that problem now, but
it would be one issue to look into.

>3) I have serious pizza wheel markings on glossy paper on my Epson
>750. Any suggestions as to how to remedy?

With the pigmented quad inks many on this list use, glossy paper cannot be
used anyway.  So, this may not be the best place to ask that one.  My 3000
has those problems with many papers also, but I've only noticed them once on
an EAM with the MIS pigmented quads.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Paul

I have two hextone printers (890 and photo EX) that I want to start 
experimenting with before purchasing larger format. I do very 
warm/yellow sepia with my portrait work and originally tried MIS 
full colour pigs with some better than expected results. My 
intention was to see if this worked before going down the VM sepia 
mix track. The next stage is to do just that. I was about to order 
these inks when I read this.

> As of now, there is no Epson driver workflow for FS or Piezo inks 
that works
> with hextone printers.  The use of the same density inks in the 
magenta and
> light/photo magenta (likewise cyan/photo cyan) positions makes it 
impossible
> to get acceptable results from the Epson driver in hextone 
printers.

I thought Chris Brandin has work flow and curves for hextones.

My plan was to purchase neutral-sepia hextone inks with CIS for the 
890, download Chris's curves. I dont have a RIP, and just use it 
with the 
Epson Driver.

(apologies in advance for any dumbness on my behalf)

Garry Sarre

www.sarre.com.au



DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@v...> 
wrote:
> Jim,
> 
> You asked:
> 
> >... is this limited to certain printers with Piezo driver? Would
> >results be equally impressive with 7000, 1280, 1160, and are ink
> >versions even available for both 4 and 6 ink printers?
> 
> The Piezo system uses the same inks for the 4 and 6 ink printers.  
So, the
> FS inks work with any Piezo system.
> 
> The quad printers -- 1160 and 3000 -- can also print FS inks with 
the Epson
> driver, using RGB Photoshop image adjustment curves.  I actually 
prefer the
> Epson driver with my 3000 for a variety of reasons, but I 
understand why
> some prefer the Piezo driver.
> 
> As of now, there is no Epson driver workflow for FS or Piezo inks 
that works
> with hextone printers.  The use of the same density inks in the 
magenta and
> light/photo magenta (likewise cyan/photo cyan) positions makes it 
impossible
> to get acceptable results from the Epson driver in hextone 
printers.  I'm
> not sure there is enough demand for anyone to bother with making 
light/photo
> FS inks and the curves for the hextone printers.
> 
> If ColorByte and/or others support the MIS VM inks for the 
hextones, there
> would be no advantage to the Piezo approach over the VM approach.
> 
> Frankly, I think a monotone hextone is a waste of printer 
capacity.  With a
> hextone, one can make a variable-tone RIP that uses both the cool 
and sepia
> toners.  I'll help anyone do this, and there may now be two groups 
pursuing
> the approach.  On a hextone, you can go both ways with no dots at 
all and no

> crossovers.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com