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Eboni-6 or C6b generic base in Epson 3800

Eboni-6 or C6b generic base in Epson 3800

2013-10-05 by <roark.paul@...>

Is anyone using Eboni-6 or the DIY version with the generic base in a 3800 or 3880? I'm trying to determine if some issues a user is having is due to the printer being different or other factors (like the source of the ingredients).


Thanks,

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

RE: Eboni-6 or C6b generic base in Epson 3800

2013-10-09 by <grimmieoldfart@...>

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Re: [Digital BW] RE: Eboni-6 or C6b generic base in Epson 3800

2013-10-09 by Paul Roark

It may be that a few have experienced issues with the pH of their water and final mixes.

In my Ink Mixing PDF <http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Ink-Mixing.pdf> at footnote 14 I include the following:

"Note on pH buffering: Pigments that are stabilized in part by their electrostatic charges are somewhat pH sensitive. It’s an open question whether the marginal improvements I’ve seen in settling rate with pH buffered bases are, on net, a positive addition. Even without any further buffering, the pH stays relatively close to that of the ink, and centrifuge tests show only marginal, if any advantage to further buffering, depending on the dilution ratio. Currently the buffering I’ve used is 1% (or 2%) TEA with 0.1% (or 0.2%) citric acid. The pros and cons of this step may be explored in further depth later, but at this point, it appears additional buffering is unnecessary and may be a net negative for the more concentrated mixes. These chemicals are available at Photographers Formulary."

While I have used the C6 mixes with no buffering added (it's in the original inks) and have had good, consistent results, even distilled water can vary. Apparently it absorbs CO2 and can become too acidic. MIS buffers the water it uses due to this issue.

Whether the newer heads are also more sensitive to the pH is also an unknown.

At any rate, if you have microbanding with the home mixed generic base, MIS mixed version of the generic base, or MIS mixed Eb6 dilutions, please let me know which seems to be the source of the problem.

Thanks,

Paul

Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 2:26 PM, <grimmieoldfart@...> wrote:

Not sure if your concern is over the extreme warmth or banding but I recently experienced both while mixing Eboni & C6C for Arches. After a few days of toying with it I ordered a complete Eboni-6 set from MIS to see if the ingredients are off.


The printer has worked fine up to this point using the OEM Epson inks. A 4 day thorough cleaning & purging before switching to Eb-Mk+C6C. I am personally suspecting a bad batch of C6C or old bottle of Eboni-MK due to shipping & moving around the world...



---In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, <digitalblackandwhitetheprint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Is anyone using Eboni-6 or the DIY version with the generic base in a 3800 or 3880? I'm trying to determine if some issues a user is having is due to the printer being different or other factors (like the source of the ingredients).

Thanks,

Paul


RE: Eboni-6 or C6b generic base in Epson 3800

2013-10-10 by <grimmieoldfart@...>

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RE: Re: [Digital BW] RE: Eboni-6 or C6b generic base in Epson 3800

2013-10-18 by <grimmieoldfart@...>

Paul,


Which Eb6 base should we be using for the 3.5 pl heads, (Epson R2400 & 3800)?


The C6B was designed for the smaller heads such as the 1400, but what are the side effects, if any, of using C6B or C6C (Arches) in the R2400 & 3800?




---In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, <digitalblackandwhitetheprint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

It may be that a few have experienced issues with the pH of their water and final mixes.

In my Ink Mixing PDF <http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Ink-Mixing.pdf> at footnote 14 I include the following:

"Note on pH buffering: Pigments that are stabilized in part by their electrostatic charges are somewhat pH sensitive. It’s an open question whether the marginal improvements I’ve seen in settling rate with pH buffered bases are, on net, a positive addition. Even without any further buffering, the pH stays relatively close to that of the ink, and centrifuge tests show only marginal, if any advantage to further buffering, depending on the dilution ratio. Currently the buffering I’ve used is 1% (or 2%) TEA with 0.1% (or 0.2%) citric acid. The pros and cons of this step may be explored in further depth later, but at this point, it appears additional buffering is unnecessary and may be a net negative for the more concentrated mixes. These chemicals are available at Photographers Formulary."

While I have used the C6 mixes with no buffering added (it's in the original inks) and have had good, consistent results, even distilled water can vary. Apparently it absorbs CO2 and can become too acidic. MIS buffers the water it uses due to this issue.

Whether the newer heads are also more sensitive to the pH is also an unknown.

At any rate, if you have microbanding with the home mixed generic base, MIS mixed version of the generic base, or MIS mixed Eb6 dilutions, please let me know which seems to be the source of the problem.

Thanks,

Paul

Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 2:26 PM, <grimmieoldfart@...> wrote:

Not sure if your concern is over the extreme warmth or banding but I recently experienced both while mixing Eboni & C6C for Arches. After a few days of toying with it I ordered a complete Eboni-6 set from MIS to see if the ingredients are off.


The printer has worked fine up to this point using the OEM Epson inks. A 4 day thorough cleaning & purging before switching to Eb-Mk+C6C. I am personally suspecting a bad batch of C6C or old bottle of Eboni-MK due to shipping & moving around the world...



---In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, <digitalblackandwhitetheprint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Is anyone using Eboni-6 or the DIY version with the generic base in a 3800 or 3880? I'm trying to determine if some issues a user is having is due to the printer being different or other factors (like the source of the ingredients).

Thanks,

Paul

Re: Re: [Digital BW] RE: Eboni-6 or C6b generic base in Epson 3800

2013-10-18 by Paul Roark


Which Eb6 base should we be using for the 3.5 pl heads, (Epson R2400 & 3800)?


I think C6b is the best.


The C6B was designed for the smaller heads such as the 1400, but what are the side effects, if any, of using C6B or C6C (Arches) in the R2400 & 3800?


I know of no negative side effects of C6b. One normal paper the c version ads nothing even on a 1400. So, don't bother with that for inkjet paper. For Arches, I have not done a side-by-side of b and c on 3.5 pl printers, but I use C6b on my 7800 with Arches and it seems fine.

Whether MIS's Eb6 dilutions would be better in the 3800 is an issue I can't answer. If people are having issues with that printer and the user-mixed C6b, then a test of the MIS dilution is needed. You might want to get at least one dilution from MIS to see if you can detect a difference.

Let me know how it all turns out.

Paul





---In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, <digitalblackandwhitetheprint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

It may be that a few have experienced issues with the pH of their water and final mixes.

In my Ink Mixing PDF <http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Ink-Mixing.pdf> at footnote 14 I include the following:

"Note on pH buffering: Pigments that are stabilized in part by their electrostatic charges are somewhat pH sensitive. It’s an open question whether the marginal improvements I’ve seen in settling rate with pH buffered bases are, on net, a positive addition. Even without any further buffering, the pH stays relatively close to that of the ink, and centrifuge tests show only marginal, if any advantage to further buffering, depending on the dilution ratio. Currently the buffering I’ve used is 1% (or 2%) TEA with 0.1% (or 0.2%) citric acid. The pros and cons of this step may be explored in further depth later, but at this point, it appears additional buffering is unnecessary and may be a net negative for the more concentrated mixes. These chemicals are available at Photographers Formulary."

While I have used the C6 mixes with no buffering added (it's in the original inks) and have had good, consistent results, even distilled water can vary. Apparently it absorbs CO2 and can become too acidic. MIS buffers the water it uses due to this issue.

Whether the newer heads are also more sensitive to the pH is also an unknown.

At any rate, if you have microbanding with the home mixed generic base, MIS mixed version of the generic base, or MIS mixed Eb6 dilutions, please let me know which seems to be the source of the problem.

Thanks,

Paul



On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 2:26 PM, <grimmieoldfart@...> wrote:

Not sure if your concern is over the extreme warmth or banding but I recently experienced both while mixing Eboni & C6C for Arches. After a few days of toying with it I ordered a complete Eboni-6 set from MIS to see if the ingredients are off.


The printer has worked fine up to this point using the OEM Epson inks. A 4 day thorough cleaning & purging before switching to Eb-Mk+C6C. I am personally suspecting a bad batch of C6C or old bottle of Eboni-MK due to shipping & moving around the world...



---In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, <digitalblackandwhitetheprint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Is anyone using Eboni-6 or the DIY version with the generic base in a 3800 or 3880? I'm trying to determine if some issues a user is having is due to the printer being different or other factors (like the source of the ingredients).

Thanks,

Paul


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