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Need help for Glossy Epson R2000

Need help for Glossy Epson R2000

2014-04-10 by <benedictchen22@...>

Hi guys and paul

I'm needing help with this: I'm looking into moving away from Eboni 6. (1400)
I want to try on glossy paper. to be exact I like to try canson fiber paper.
I have been using Jone cone Carbon ICC and I like the look. But I like to make it 1 pass me being clumsy and all....

I read the threads and saw that Paul suggest to use MIS PK, LK and LLK .
Which is Epson K3 equivalent on MIS website. Just to be sure are they 100% carbon.
I using the Paul Roark eperimental page to find the inks.

Any suggestions on how to fill the and 8 slots on the R2000

Also let say If I want to do glossy only and I have Eboni Mk inside, during the curve reaction page do I just set the Eboni to off?

I think I am going to keep the 1400 for something else or sell it cos pizza wheel issue make me just want to avoid.
Thanks in Advance!




Re: Need help for Glossy Epson R2000

2014-04-10 by <benedictchen22@...>

As an additional question: Suppose I buy a R3000 instead of R2000
(I thought of getting 2x R2000 , one for color and one for BW )
If MIS K3 equivalent PK, LK, LLK are Carbon glossy.
I should be able in theory to use just this 3 in QTR to make carbon glossy prints right?
If that is the case, I have a good setup of
1400> Matte Carbon Prints
R3000> Color and with QTR Glossy Carbon Prints (albeit Warm/Sepia)

in Singapore, R3000 twice the price of R2000.

Any flaws or drawbacks to this method?

Re: [Digital BW] Need help for Glossy Epson R2000

2014-04-10 by Paul Roark

<benedictchen22@...> wrote:

...

I want to try on glossy paper. to be exact I like to try canson fiber paper.

If you are intending to use the R2000 with custom inksets, you'll need to know how to make profiles using QTR. The lack of light inks and the inclusion of the red and orange inks makes the usual RGB curves of Photoshop inadequate for control in most situations, unless you want a 100% monochrome setup -- for example 100% MIS glossy carbon. With a monochrome inkset, you can use the Epson driver with a setup like I used for the 1800 and Eboni-6. See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-1800.pdf . (Beware that the 1800 had different additional colors and has not been tested on an R2000.)


I have been using Jone cone Carbon ICC and I like the look. But I like to make it 1 pass me being clumsy and all....

I'm not familiar with that inkset. Jon's carbon sepia on matte paper prints much like the MIS carbon on matte paper in terms of the print tone. MIS glossy carbon on glossy paper prints with a sepia type tone that is twice as warm as Cone Carbon Sepia on matte paper.

The MIS pigments use gloss optimizer ("glop") as the fluid base. As such, they have the lowest amount of pigment reflective artifacts that I've seen. (But I use dyes for glossy to avoid the pigment problems entirely.) However, one some papers there can still be some. For that reason, in the UT14 inkset I put glop in the Y position so that it could add more glop as needed to further control the bronzing. You can see that inkset PDF and curves to see how it was used. See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/UT14.pdf .

Note that the UT14 neutralized carbon inks may be something you should consider along with the MIS glossy carbon to control the print tone. That 100% MIS carbon print is going to be a sepia tone.

I read the threads and saw that Paul suggest to use MIS PK, LK and LLK .
Which is Epson K3 equivalent on MIS website. Just to be sure are they 100% carbon.

Yes, the MIS PK, LK, and LLK are 100% carbon. Note that they are warmer than the Epson K3 gray inks, which are probably a somewhat neutralized carbon (a bit too green, in my view).

I using the Paul Roark eperimental page to find the inks.

(Using my last name with the printer in Google is how I find most of my pages.)



Any suggestions on how to fill the and 8 slots on the R2000

See the UT14 approach. UT14 uses one channel (color) for the warm 100% carbon and one for a neutralized carbon. UT14 uses PK and LK only, but K3 has the LLK. MIS also has made a UT14-type neutralized carbon LLK. So, you can set up warm and cool channels with up to 3 densities of ink. You can also put a separate glop in there as well as an MK (Eboni). That fills the machine.

In QTR you might want to make one profile with 100% carbon and another profile with the neutralized carbon. Then use the sliders to print with a blend of the two profiles.

You can set up the glop as a toner in the profiles. Use the density value to move the peak output to the lighter end or darker end of the scale (lower density moves it to the lighter end, I think). Use the ink limit to control the amount. Don't use too much or you'll have more pizza wheel issues. (Like the other pigment on glossy artifacts, dyes have much less of a problem with these annoyances.)



Also let say If I want to do glossy only and I have Eboni Mk inside, during the curve reaction page do I just set the Eboni to off?

Yes, just turn it off -- "not used."


I think I am going to keep the 1400 for something else or sell it cos pizza wheel issue make me just want to avoid.

They all have pizza wheel issues with pigments. (I want my image forming substance inside the coating, not sitting on top.)

Good luck.

Paul

Re: [Digital BW] Need help for Glossy Epson R2000

2014-04-11 by <benedictchen22@...>

Hi
Paul Thanks for the insight.

On R2000 and R3000. suppose I use the Front loading feeding method would there still be a problem of "Pizza Wheel"?


I just messed with Glop in 1400. Its too unpredictable! The roller Marks and the pizza wheel. I reduced the Glop amount and the pizza wheel is more manageable.but the roller marks....

Lets see what I can do.
Also can the Mis Carbon glossy ink go into the 1400 since it is 1.5 pico vs 3.5pico design?

Re: [Digital BW] Need help for Glossy Epson R2000

2014-04-11 by Paul Roark

<benedictchen22@...> wrote:
...
On R2000 and R3000. suppose I use the Front loading feeding method would there still be a problem of "Pizza Wheel"?

I don't have those printers, but usually it's the exit rollers that cause the pizza wheel marks. As such, it would seen front loading would not avoid the problem.
...
Also can the Mis Carbon glossy ink go into the 1400 since it is 1.5 pico vs 3.5pico design?

Yes - no problem. The nozzles are very large compared to the pigment sizes.

Paul

RE: [Digital BW] Need help for Glossy Epson R2000

2014-04-11 by Elliot Puritz

I agree that the roller marks are a pain when using glossy papers.

 

I am using Cone Warm Neutral inks, and often print ( the 2880 ) with Canson Platine.  Support at Jon's site suggests using a "lead sheet" of the same printing paper attached to the "print sheet" by painter's tape.  There is a thread that explains the process.  I have taken to using the rear manual sheet feeder.  When using such the roller marks never occur.  I must be very lucky, for thus far I have not noted any instances of a pizza wheel.  In addition, using Jon's gloss optimizer I have not had any examples of gelling, etc. that some have reported with other ink systems and alternate gloss optimizers.  Again, I must be very fortunate.

 

Elliot
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From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of benedictchen22@...
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2014 10:41 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Need help for Glossy Epson R2000

 

  

Hi  

Paul Thanks for the insight.

 

On R2000 and R3000. suppose I use the Front loading feeding method would there still be a problem of "Pizza Wheel"?

 

 

I just messed with Glop in 1400. Its too unpredictable! The roller Marks and the pizza wheel. I reduced the Glop amount and the pizza wheel is more manageable.but the roller marks.... 

 

Lets see what I can do.  

Also can the Mis Carbon glossy ink go into the 1400 since it is 1.5 pico vs 3.5pico design?

RE: [Digital BW] Need help for Glossy Epson R2000

2014-04-12 by <benedictchen22@...>

On The matter of Pizza wheel. I manage to reduce it from the GLop Layer by reducing the inkload form 80% to 40%. It looks ok.

The problem I see now is the alignment of non borderless glop being distracting.

This is because I chose to work on glossy/luster/FB so i can show prints without glass. and for keeping my photographs in print rather than digital.

My plan now is to use R3000 + MIS color inks for Color glossy and carbon glossy. (I like warm prints.) All one Pass.

Eboni 6 for Matte : on this point: do Mis Glossy carbon have higher Dmax than Eboni 6? SO let say I mix it up a little maybe 1 slot to use PK would it tachnically bring up Dmax?

I'm not using RR Aurua Natural. The Dmax is lacking. In LR with ICC I have to push the blacks all the way.

Alternative papers?

Are the canson papers good?
How about RR Bartya paper?


Re: [Digital BW] Need help for Glossy Epson R2000

2014-04-12 by Paul Roark

<benedictchen22@...> wrote:

... do Mis Glossy carbon have higher Dmax than Eboni 6?

On a good glossy paper the MIS PK will measure as having a better dmax than Eboni MK on a good matte paper. However, in actual display, if both are under glass or acrylic, the matte black will often look better due to the reflections from the rest of the room.

Be sure to use MK for matte paper and PK for glossy paper.

There are lots of good matte papers that produce deep blacks. I like Epson Hot Press natural, in part because it prints relatively neutrally with Eboni-6. Many like Hahnemuhle Photo Rag; it prints with a warmer tone. Premier Art Generations Alise is another paper that can produce very deep blacks, though the Premier Art paper I like the best is their Smooth Fine Art 325.

Paul




RE: [Digital BW] Need help for Glossy Epson R2000

2014-04-12 by Elliot Puritz

The Canson Infinity papers are wonderful.  I have used the RB and find it to be a bit cooler than the Platine which is itself outstanding.  Indeed, I will often preferentially use one paper or the other to achieve tonal variations of my choosing.  As far as the matte papers:  If looking for papers with texture few if any will surpass the Arches Aquarelle-especially if you are showing your prints without glass.. Another textured matte paper I use is Edition Etchings which renders tones a bit differently than the AA.  

 

As all here know, the papers that one's images are printed upon make a difference in how prints are perceived. Needless to note, the only way to judge which paper "works best" is to actually MAKE prints with/on such papers.

 

Hence one might avail oneself to various trial packs of the Canson papers in which one has an interest.  One can post encomiums of papers that one finds excellent using inks and the "work flow" that one uses.  However, every digital photographers must find the papers that work best with the subjects photographed, ink sets used, editing techniques implemented, and other parameters that are unique to each photographers vision.

 

Best of luck.  Please let us know which papers work best with the interesting techniques that you are using.

 

Elliot
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From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of benedictchen22@...
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2014 11:41 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Need help for Glossy Epson R2000

 

  

On The matter of Pizza wheel. I manage to reduce it from the GLop Layer by reducing the inkload form 80% to 40%. It looks ok.

 

The problem I see now is the alignment of non borderless glop being distracting. 

 

This is because I chose to work on glossy/luster/FB so i can show prints without glass. and for keeping my photographs in print rather than digital.  

 

My plan now is to use R3000 + MIS color inks for Color glossy and carbon glossy. (I like warm prints.) All one Pass. 

 

Eboni 6 for Matte : on this point: do Mis Glossy carbon have higher Dmax than Eboni 6? SO let say I mix it up a little maybe 1 slot to use PK would it tachnically bring up Dmax?

 

I'm not using RR Aurua Natural. The Dmax is lacking. In LR with ICC I have to push the blacks all the way.  

 

Alternative papers? 

 

Are the canson papers good?

How about RR Bartya paper?

RE: [Digital BW] Need help for Glossy Epson R2000

2014-04-12 by <homershannon@...>

Elliot:

I've only been casually following this thread and I'm not sure my information will help you, but I have been printing glossy prints using the UT14 ink set on a 1400 for two years using .acv curves I developed based on some of Paul Roark's curves. All of the information along will sample scans is available at http://1drv.ms/1hh7Ax0 .

See if this helps.

Homer Shannon

RE: [Digital BW] Need help for Glossy Epson R2000

2014-04-12 by Elliot Puritz

Hi Homer:

 

How nice of you to help.  I will take a look at the information later today and get back to you either privately or on the thread.  Thanks again.

 

Elliot
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From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of homershannon@...
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2014 9:15 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Need help for Glossy Epson R2000

 

  

Elliot:

 

I've only been casually following this thread and I'm not sure my information will help you, but I have been printing glossy prints using the UT14 ink set on a 1400 for two years using .acv curves I developed based on some of Paul Roark's curves. All of the information along will sample scans is available at http://1drv.ms/1hh7Ax0 .

 

See if this helps. 

 

Homer Shannon

Re: Need help for Glossy Epson R2000

2014-04-13 by <benedictchen22@...>

Thanks Elliot.
Papers are really expensive in Singapore. Will be looking at innova and canson.

Guys If anyone has R3000 please advise how to set it up for manual front feeding. No such option in QTR ! but there is for 3880...

Else I have to look for 3885 aka Asia's 3880 ... which is painfully difficult to find Refillable inkcarts now... at least locally....

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