warm tone
2014-09-11 by geodesiq@...
I want to do matte warm tone prints sort of like the old Portriga. Which ink should I look at?
Thread
warm tone
Re: [Digital BW] warm tone
2014-09-11 by David Kachel
I want to do matte warm tone prints sort of like the old Portriga. Which ink should I look at?
If you have an Epson K3 printer, start with Epson\u2019s built-in ABW. You don\u2019t need anything but what you already have.
If you have not purchased a printer yet, get the Epson 3880. That part is a no-brainer. There is a smaller printer that uses the same ink set, but I don\u2019t know what model that is\u2026 guys?
David Kachel
___________________
Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs
www.davidkachel.com
david@...
PO Box 93
Fort Davis, TX 79734
(432) 386-5787
RE: [Digital BW] warm tone
2014-09-11 by Elliot Puritz
Hi David: Are you referring to the 2880? Incidentally, alluding to black and white printing using OEM inks: Have any considered the Canon models with their Lucia pigment inks? 12 tones including 5 black inks..intuitively one might expect the tonal range with more black inks to be superior. However, I am not certain. Elliot
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From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 10:32 PM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Digital BW] warm tone I want to do matte warm tone prints sort of like the old Portriga. Which ink should I look at? If you have an Epson K3 printer, start with Epson's built-in ABW. You don't need anything but what you already have. If you have not purchased a printer yet, get the Epson 3880. That part is a no-brainer. There is a smaller printer that uses the same ink set, but I don't know what model that is. guys? David Kachel ___________________ Artist-Photographer Fine B&W Photographs www.davidkachel.com david@... PO Box 93 Fort Davis, TX 79734 (432) 386-5787
Re: [Digital BW] warm tone
2014-09-11 by David Kachel
Are you referring to the 2880?
Probably. I don\u2019t keep up with printers I’m not using.
Incidentally, alluding to black and white printing using OEM inks: Have any considered the Canon models with their Lucia pigment inks? 12 tones including 5 black inks\u2026.intuitively one might expect the tonal range with more black inks to be superior. However, I am not certain.
I don\u2019t believe Canon has anything like ABW. Plus, there are no aftermarket cartridges or B&W inks. QTR doesn\u2019t work on Canon printers. I think it is a non-starter for B&W. I\u2019d love to be proven wrong.
David Kachel
___________________
Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs
www.davidkachel.com
david@...
PO Box 93
Fort Davis, TX 79734
(432) 386-5787
RE: [Digital BW] warm tone
2014-09-11 by Elliot Puritz
HI David: Well, I certainly don't know very much about the details except to write that the Canon site and other sites allude to printing of black and white photos without any issue. They use their own drivers with a separate plug in. You are correct in that AFAIK there are no third party inks. Perhaps I can find some additional information..just curious since I am using the Cone inks to good advantage. Elliot
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From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 11:25 PM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Digital BW] warm tone Are you referring to the 2880? Probably. I don't keep up with printers I'm not using. Incidentally, alluding to black and white printing using OEM inks: Have any considered the Canon models with their Lucia pigment inks? 12 tones including 5 black inks..intuitively one might expect the tonal range with more black inks to be superior. However, I am not certain. I don't believe Canon has anything like ABW. Plus, there are no aftermarket cartridges or B&W inks. QTR doesn't work on Canon printers. I think it is a non-starter for B&W. I'd love to be proven wrong. David Kachel ___________________ Artist-Photographer Fine B&W Photographs www.davidkachel.com david@... PO Box 93 Fort Davis, TX 79734 (432) 386-5787
RE: [Digital BW] warm tone
2014-09-11 by Elliot Puritz
Hi Again David and others making black and white prints: First: I have nothing to do with Canon other than being interested. I own and use Epson printers. However, the new Lucia pigment ink set has the 5 black inks and additional color inks that I alluded to previously. For any that are interested, here is a link that might lead to other information. http://www.ronmartblog.com/2013/02/which-printer-should-i-buy-epson-or.html If any here are already using the Canon products to print black and white images perhaps they can comment further. Elliot
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From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 11:25 PM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Digital BW] warm tone Are you referring to the 2880? Probably. I don't keep up with printers I'm not using. Incidentally, alluding to black and white printing using OEM inks: Have any considered the Canon models with their Lucia pigment inks? 12 tones including 5 black inks..intuitively one might expect the tonal range with more black inks to be superior. However, I am not certain. I don't believe Canon has anything like ABW. Plus, there are no aftermarket cartridges or B&W inks. QTR doesn't work on Canon printers. I think it is a non-starter for B&W. I'd love to be proven wrong. David Kachel ___________________ Artist-Photographer Fine B&W Photographs www.davidkachel.com david@... PO Box 93 Fort Davis, TX 79734 (432) 386-5787
Re: warm tone
2014-09-11 by richard@...
Portriga Rapid, if I remember correctly, (I last used an old expired box 12 years ago and the prints are now in storage) was somewhat of a warm-reddish paper rather than a warm-greenish paper like Ilford MG. Of course, it would depend on the developer and toner you used...
I just looked on ebay and picked up bought a few boxes of grade 2 and 3. I will print a few step wedges with different developers and toning methods and then measure Lab values to see what inkset will best approximate the color of a few different papers, Azo, Portriga, Ilford,
I think the best way to go about this is to set up an Epson x800 or x880 with a mix of a shared black (MK/PK) and two different color sets of the same three shades. An example would be shared shade 1, and one set of carbon shades 2, 4, and 6, and one set of selenium shades 2, 4, and 6. When i get some free time i plan on testing which three shades of grey work best with this configuration.
I don't mean to be a Jon Cone cheerleader here, it is just that those are the inks I have, and he is very clear about what each inkset includes and that the L* values of each shade are the same from one color inkset to the next.
I would love to have a 2880 and a few different sets of refillable carts to experiment with all the variations of MIS Assoc. inks. and mess with mixing my own and comparing them to the Cone inks. Maybe this winter.
Re: [Digital BW] warm tone
2014-09-11 by Keith Schreiber
I have a Canon iPF6400, a couple of Epson 3800s, and used to run a couple of Epson 7600s. The iPF series (I have no experience with smaller Canon printers) has a Print Plug-in with a monochrome mode that is very similar to Epson's ABW mode. It works well within the limits of it's capabilities. There is also a stand-alone program for the iPF series called "True Black & White" that is somewhat similar to QuadTone RIP for Epson printers. Unfortunately, it costs 4 times the price of QTR, documentation is almost non-existant, support is sketchy at best, and there is no user-base that I have been able to find. I tried a demo-version but so far haven't sprung for the full program.
I am a long time user of QTR and have been very happy with it, both with OEM inks (3800 and 7600) and with Cone's Piezography Carbon inkset (7600). IMO, the downside to the Cone Piezography inks is that you are committed to a particular tone (color): Neutral, Warm-Neutral, Selenium, Carbon, or Special Edition). To alter the tone, you have to change papers. On the other hand, if you find a combination of inkset and paper that you like (which I did with the Carbon inkset and Canson BFK Rives paper) and have no need to vary from that, then it is about as easy as can be to produce consistently high quality prints.
For the OP (no name on the post), I would like to suggest that the tone of silver papers had as much to do with the developer used and any toning that was done as part of the processing as with the paper itself. In other words, not all prints on Portriga had the same tone. A print developed in Dektol looks different than one developed in Ansco 130. An untoned print looks different than one toned lightly in Selenium, which looks different than one toned heavily in Selenium, not to mention one that is Sepia-toned.
I think that using QTR with the OEM Epson inks would be the most flexible approach.
Sorry for being so long-winded!
Keith
On Sep 10, 2014, at 9:55 PM, 'Elliot Puritz' drpuritz@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
HI David:
Well, I certainly don't know very much about the details except to write that the Canon site and other sites allude to printing of black and white photos without any issue. They use their own drivers with a separate plug in. You are correct in that AFAIK there are no third party inks.
Perhaps I can find some additional information….just curious since I am using the Cone inks to good advantage.
Elliot
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 11:25 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] warm tone
Are you referring to the 2880?
Probably. I don’t keep up with printers I’m not using. ;
Incidentally, alluding to black and white printing using OEM inks: Have any considered the Canon models with their Lucia pigment inks? 12 tones including 5 black inks….intuitively one might expect the tonal range with more black inks to be superior. However, I am not certain.
I don’t believe Canon has anything like ABW. Plus, there are no aftermarket cartridges or B&W inks. QTR doesn’t work on Canon printers. I think it is a non-starter for B&W. I’d love to be proven wrong.
David Kachel
___________________
Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs
PO Box 93
Fort Davis, TX 79734
(432) 386-5787
Re: [Digital BW] warm tone
2014-09-11 by Jacques Caron
Hi
Keith, maybe long but very informative.
After more than 40 years in the darkroom, I went with EB-6 inks on Epson Cold Press. Found the results (tone, d-max and greyscale ) to my liking. Using QTR and QTR Print, I'm not into more experiences. I like what I print.
Thanks again for the insight.
Le 2014-09-11 à 18:32, "Keith Schreiber keith@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint]" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> a écrit :
I have a Canon iPF6400, a couple of Epson 3800s, and used to run a couple of Epson 7600s. The iPF series (I have no experience with smaller Canon printers) has a Print Plug-in with a monochrome mode that is very similar to Epson's ABW mode. It works well within the limits of it's capabilities. There is also a stand-alone program for the iPF series called "True Black & White" that is somewhat similar to QuadTone RIP for Epson printers. Unfortunately, it costs 4 times the price of QTR, documentation is almost non-existant, support is sketchy at best, and there is no user-base that I have been able to find. I tried a demo-version but so far haven't sprung for the full program.I am a long time user of QTR and have been very happy with it, both with OEM inks (3800 and 7600) and with Cone's Piezography Carbon inkset (7600). IMO, the downside to the Cone Piezography inks is that you are committed to a particular tone (color): Neutral, Warm-Neutral, Selenium, Carbon, or Special Edition). To alter the tone, you have to change papers. On the other hand, if you find a combination of inkset and paper that you like (which I did with the Carbon inkset and Canson BFK Rives paper) and have no need to vary from that, then it is about as easy as can be to produce consistently high quality prints.For the OP (no name on the post), I would like to suggest that the tone of silver papers had as much to do with the developer used and any toning that was done as part of the processing as with the paper itself. In other words, not all prints on Portriga had the same tone. A print developed in Dektol looks different than one developed in Ansco 130. An untoned print looks different than one toned lightly in Selenium, which looks different than one toned heavily in Selenium, not to mention one that is Sepia-toned.I think that using QTR with the OEM Epson inks would be the most flexible approach.Sorry for being so long-winded!Keith
On Sep 10, 2014, at 9:55 PM, 'Elliot Puritz' drpuritz@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:HI David:
Well, I certainly don't know very much about the details except to write that the Canon site and other sites allude to printing of black and white photos without any issue. They use their own drivers with a separate plug in. You are correct in that AFAIK there are no third party inks.
Perhaps I can find some additional information….just curious since I am using the Cone inks to good advantage.
Elliot
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 11:25 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] warm tone
Are you referring to the 2880?
Probably. I don’t keep up with printers I’m not using.
Incidentally, alluding to black and white printing using OEM inks: Have any considered the Canon models with their Lucia pigment inks? 12 tones including 5 black inks….intuitively one might expect the tonal range with more black inks to be superior. However, I am not certain.
I don’t believe Canon has anything like ABW. Plus, there are no aftermarket cartridges or B&W inks. QTR doesn’t work on Canon printers. I think it is a non-starter for B&W. I’d love to be proven wrong.
David Kachel
___________________
Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs
PO Box 93
Fort Davis, TX 79734
(432) 386-5787
Jacques Caron
RE: [Digital BW] warm tone
2014-09-12 by Elliot Puritz
Hi Keith: Thanks for the interesting and detailed information you provided. I agree completely that the paper used can have a considerably impact on the tones rendered in the final digital print. Note that I believe that one can indeed change the tones within each Cone ink set by mixing various inks. The technique is taught by Jon in his workshops ( which I have yet to attend ). Indeed, he encourages attendees to experiment and provides some background in order make the "blending" easier. My preference for black and white printing is to use the Cone inks. However, Richard Boutwell ( who posts here occasionally ) constructed a QTR curve for me to use with the OEM Epson inks and Canson Platine paper. Similar to your reports, the results were excellent. Elliot
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From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 6:33 PM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Digital BW] warm tone I have a Canon iPF6400, a couple of Epson 3800s, and used to run a couple of Epson 7600s. The iPF series (I have no experience with smaller Canon printers) has a Print Plug-in with a monochrome mode that is very similar to Epson's ABW mode. It works well within the limits of it's capabilities. There is also a stand-alone program for the iPF series called "True Black & White" that is somewhat similar to QuadTone RIP for Epson printers. Unfortunately, it costs 4 times the price of QTR, documentation is almost non-existant, support is sketchy at best, and there is no user-base that I have been able to find. I tried a demo-version but so far haven't sprung for the full program. I am a long time user of QTR and have been very happy with it, both with OEM inks (3800 and 7600) and with Cone's Piezography Carbon inkset (7600). IMO, the downside to the Cone Piezography inks is that you are committed to a particular tone (color): Neutral, Warm-Neutral, Selenium, Carbon, or Special Edition). To alter the tone, you have to change papers. On the other hand, if you find a combination of inkset and paper that you like (which I did with the Carbon inkset and Canson BFK Rives paper) and have no need to vary from that, then it is about as easy as can be to produce consistently high quality prints. For the OP (no name on the post), I would like to suggest that the tone of silver papers had as much to do with the developer used and any toning that was done as part of the processing as with the paper itself. In other words, not all prints on Portriga had the same tone. A print developed in Dektol looks different than one developed in Ansco 130. An untoned print looks different than one toned lightly in Selenium, which looks different than one toned heavily in Selenium, not to mention one that is Sepia-toned. I think that using QTR with the OEM Epson inks would be the most flexible approach. Sorry for being so long-winded! Keith Keith Schreiber keith@... jkschreiber.wordpress.com On Sep 10, 2014, at 9:55 PM, 'Elliot Puritz' drpuritz@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote: HI David: Well, I certainly don't know very much about the details except to write that the Canon site and other sites allude to printing of black and white photos without any issue. They use their own drivers with a separate plug in. You are correct in that AFAIK there are no third party inks. Perhaps I can find some additional information..just curious since I am using the Cone inks to good advantage. Elliot From: <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com[ <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 11:25 PM To: <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Digital BW] warm tone Are you referring to the 2880? Probably. I don't keep up with printers I'm not using. Incidentally, alluding to black and white printing using OEM inks: Have any considered the Canon models with their Lucia pigment inks? 12 tones including 5 black inks..intuitively one might expect the tonal range with more black inks to be superior. However, I am not certain. I don't believe Canon has anything like ABW. Plus, there are no aftermarket cartridges or B&W inks. QTR doesn't work on Canon printers. I think it is a non-starter for B&W. I'd love to be proven wrong. David Kachel ___________________ Artist-Photographer Fine B&W Photographs <http://www.davidkachel.com/> www.davidkachel.com <mailto:david@...> david@... PO Box 93 Fort Davis, TX 79734 (432) 386-5787