Yahoo Groups archive

Digital BW, The Print

Index last updated: 2026-04-28 22:56 UTC

Thread

Arches and BO problem on epson 1400

Arches and BO problem on epson 1400

2014-12-01 by benoit.lantoine@...

Hello,

I am experiencing a new problem on an epson 1400 loaded with black mis eboni (recent batch) on arches, bo printing with qtr and Paul's profile.

I am having bleeding problems in the very deep black areas. (inside the prints with dark/light strong transitions and at the edges of the print)

This is what I tried :

head realignment : no effect

lower black boost at 70, 65: a little less problematic but problem not solved

with black level at 45 and no black boost the problem is nearly gone but still a little present with deep blacks ... of course the print looks flat like this.

Print on hpr and canson rag photographique : no problem at all.

One would advice to switch to coated papers but the fact is I like Arches a lot.

What could the problem be ?

printer problem?

batch of paper problem ?

ink problem ? (may be a STS batch ? bought in June this year)

Thanks

Re: [Digital BW] Arches and BO problem on epson 1400

2014-12-01 by Paul Roark

A scan (360 ppi) of a Calibration Mode QTR print on Arches is posted here:


All sharpening was turned off, exposure was on auto, and no modifications were made in Photoshop.

This "eb6" was mixed by me from STS WJ1082, which STS claims is the same as it was when Image Specialists was supplying the input MK for Eboni inks. I mixed the "eb6" dilutions with my C6c generic base.

Note that the dmax on the Calibration Mode print was 1.58. When printed vertically on Arches, it jumped to 1.68. With 2 positions of black, it jumps to 1.75.

I have no idea what MIS's current Eboni products are composed of. I know they were testing the new STS inputs. The reason I bought the STS wj1082 was that my last batch of MIS Eboni did not print the way the older Eboni-6 used to print a year ago. I have no idea why. I have now purchased two different lot numbers of STS wj1082, and they are essentially identical. So, what evidence I have suggests that STS is very capable of producing consistent inks.

Hope this helps.

Paul
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 11:10 PM, benoit.lantoine@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hello,

I am experiencing a new problem on an epson 1400 loaded with black mis eboni (recent batch) on arches, bo printing with qtr and Paul's profile.

I am having bleeding problems in the very deep black areas. (inside the prints with dark/light strong transitions and at the edges of the print)

This is what I tried :

head realignment : no effect

lower black boost at 70, 65: a little less problematic but problem not solved

with black level at 45 and no black boost the problem is nearly gone but still a little present with deep blacks ... of course the print looks flat like this.

Print on hpr and canson rag photographique : no problem at all.

One would advice to switch to coated papers but the fact is I like Arches a lot.

What could the problem be ?

printer problem?

batch of paper problem ?

ink problem ? (may be a STS batch ? bought in June this year)

Thanks


Re: Arches and BO problem on epson 1400

2014-12-01 by richard@...

Something I have done in the past is print a 360 and 720 ppi ink separation page with 1px, 2 px, and 4 px white lines running the length of the test chart. I print that at an ink limit of 100 to see at which point the dot gain starts to surpass the paper's ability to hold the dot—this is the only time I look at a print with a loupe... At some point there is a trade off between maximum black and the ability to hold detail. That is part of the reason the multi dilution inksets were developed, and what you are sacrificing printing with a single channel (and printing on an uncoated paper).

I don't have any uncoated arches here to test the black only curves, but I will sacrifice a sheet of Cot-320 to see what the dot gain is like and how a black only curve and the uncoated arches curve looks. judging from printing the ink separation page i just printed it doesn't look promising.

I'll upload my modified ink separation dot gain page for the 1400/1430 at the link below. Print this with an ink limit 100 to see where you start to compromise detail for density. it is helpful for setting ink limits for different shades—especially the three darkest ones. . I'll include my modified ink separation page for the 1400/1430 that has the dilutions in order from darkest to lightest.


Richard Boutwell

Re: [Digital BW] Arches and BO problem on epson 1400

2014-12-02 by Paul Roark

The short answer is that I don't know the source of what MIS is selling currently.

The long answer is that I suspect there has been some instability in the input MK as Image Specialists was acquired by STS and the facilities moved and combined.
The STS wj1082 lot numbers I've tested are slightly different from the Eboni that was sold a year ago. The MIS Eboni I purchased several months ago was also different than the older Eboni as well as slightly different from the STS new wj1082.
STS claims the wj1082 they are now producing is the same as what Image Specialists sold to MIS in the past -- like a year ago. Some communications I had suggests to me that while the carbon is the same, there may be an upgraded dispersant that might be causing the slight differences. Better dispersion and suspension would obviously be good things, and the higher dmax is also a very good thing. The slightly higher Lab B on a number of papers is still lower than the other carbons, with some papers being winners and some losers. It's just slightly different.

Part of what MIS brings to the table is searching for the best carbon, and that is what they are doing now. Part of their concern is consistency of the inputs. I share my findings with them -- detailed spectro readings from 2 different STS batches (which were very consistent with each other). They have also purchased the new STS inks and tested it. I just don't know if they are ready to commit to that input and whether what they are currently selling is based on it or older Image Specialists'; inputs.

Paul

Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 7:25 AM, ganb@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Paul, based on your testing then, is the STS WJ1082 different from the current MIS Eboni K ink?


Thanks,

Gan


Re: [Digital BW] Arches and BO problem on epson 1400

2014-12-02 by michael3442@...

Paul, a few days ago I looked over STS's website and could not find any indication that they actually manufacture their own ink. Their home page says they are the world's largest distributor of filled ink cartridges and inks for wide format printers (or some such language). And it says their founder is responsible for many ink cartridge developments. Perhaps they're buying Image Specialists so they can also be a manufacturer of inks. Further, maybe the ink they had been distributing was IS inks. Just trying to unravel some of the mystery surrounding ink manufacturing/distributing. ;-)

Re: [Digital BW] Arches and BO problem on epson 1400

2014-12-02 by Paul Roark

I think you're right.

And above every level is another. For example, the carbon is probably not made by the ink companies like STS, but they probably grind it. For a nice overview of some of the processes and facts about carbon, see, for example,

What we fight a lot is that the pipeline to us is long, with many levels and many inputs that are not going to be the same for very long. Yet what we do includes aspects that are sensitive to changes in the variables, including in inks and papers. Some of the differences people see in profile approach relates to efforts to minimize the impact of variables. That is also a major reason for my testing what I call the "Carbon Variable Tone" inkset and its dual MK inks. Consider what a long, no-cross-over MK channel in a 1.5 pl printer does. (See the early draft write up of the CVT inkset at http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Carbon-Variable-Tone.pdf) My next major effort will be to see if that approach can be scaled to the 7800 and other typical 3.5 pl printers.

Paul


Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 9:59 AM, michael3442@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Paul, a few days ago I looked over STS's website and could not find any indication that they actually manufacture their own ink. Their home page says they are the world's largest distributor of filled ink cartridges and inks for wide format printers (or some such language). And it says their founder is responsible for many ink cartridge developments. Perhaps they're buying Image Specialists so they can also be a manufacturer of inks. Further, maybe the ink they had been distributing was IS inks. Just trying to unravel some of the mystery surrounding ink manufacturing/distributing. ;-)


Re: Arches and BO problem on epson 1400

2014-12-02 by benoit.lantoine@...

Is there a distinctive way to know if a bottle is STS or old Mis MK ? (I have seen nothing distinctive on the sticker on the bottle, the format of the bottle is just different)
Thanks

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Arches and BO problem on epson 1400

2014-12-02 by Paul Roark

I think all that is being sold today by MIS is based on the Image Specialists' ink, prior to the merger.

Paul
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 1:47 PM, benoit.lantoine@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Is there a distinctive way to know if a bottle is STS or old Mis MK ? (I have seen nothing distinctive on the sticker on the bottle, the format of the bottle is just different)

Thanks


Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.