Digital BW, The Print

Quick background...

I got into b&w inkjet printing a year ago with MIS 6-tone inks on 
Epson 1200.  I scan 35mm film with a Nikon LS-2000 (16-bit).  While 
amazed at first I soon grew critical of the output.  I was using the 
Brandin curves at the time.  Under close scrutiny you could notice 
subtle posterization, lack of tone in highlight areas, fuzzy edges due 
to what looked like ink bleeding (Concorde Rag, Somerset Enhanced), 
etc.

I decided to give Piezo a try and was successful from the get-go.  The 
same prints which looked terrible with MIS were terrific with Piezo.  
The only problem with Piezo, to me, is the cost and the incessant 
nozzle clogging.

I am now reading about the Roarke curves, Variable-Tone inks, 
Full-Spectrum inks, etc.  This latest news has me contemplating MIS 
inks again.

1. Any comments on the Brandin curves?  Are the complaints I list 
above known problems with the Brandin curves?

2. Will I get better results with the Roarke curves (compared to the 
Brandin curves)?  Are Roarke curves available for the original inks or 
do I have to use the Variable-Tone inkset?  I do admit that the 
variable tone capability is enticing.

3. I am really intrigued by the Full Spectrum inks and the fact that 
they can be used with the Piezo software.  Alas, I just sold off my 2 
1160 printers and there does not seem to be a hextone set of these 
inks available.  Are there plans to produce hextone?

4. Any comments on the comparative quality of a Woolf workflow 
quadtone print vs. a Roarke Variable tone print with zero blue?

5. Ignoring cost... would anyone care to give a perfectionists opinion 
on whether the Piezo driver with the Full Spectrum inks gives superior 
prints to the Epson driver?

6. I'm not into the whole "blacker blacks" or "cooler tones" topics 
that are issues for many.  My priority is dot-less output, continuous 
tone, no posterization, near-zero ink bleed.  Given this would anyone 
care to rank the quality of a) Piezo ink and b) MIS inks with c) Piezo 
driver and d) Epson driver?

That's a lot of questions but thanks for any and all input.

Mike Dawson

Thanks all to the replies posted to my original query.  I can't say 
that I expected all my questions to answered.  That's OK.  The replies 
I did receive seem to indicate that users of the MIS variable-tone ink 
and the Roarke curves are confident that system will yield output that 
can stand up to the Piezo system.

One question I really was hoping to get an answer to is whether my 
negative experience with MIS inks and the Brandin curves vs. Piezo 
could be corraborated by anyone else.  And I don't really mean to be 
critical of the Brandin curves.  At the time I was new to the whole 
digital thing so maybe I didn't give those curves a fair shake.

Can anyone speak to a comparison of Brandin vs. Roarke vs. Piezo?  If 
anyone is hesitant to post critical opinions of any of these 3 systems 
to the list please feel free to e-mail me off list.

Thanks,
Mike Dawson
 
> 
> 1. Any comments on the Brandin curves?  Are the complaints I list 
> above known problems with the Brandin curves?
> 
> 2. Will I get better results with the Roarke curves (compared to the 
> Brandin curves)?  Are Roarke curves available for the original inks 
or 
> do I have to use the Variable-Tone inkset?  I do admit that the 
> variable tone capability is enticing.
> 
> 3. I am really intrigued by the Full Spectrum inks and the fact that 
> they can be used with the Piezo software.  Alas, I just sold off my 
2 
> 1160 printers and there does not seem to be a hextone set of these 
> inks available.  Are there plans to produce hextone?
> 
> 4. Any comments on the comparative quality of a Woolf workflow 
> quadtone print vs. a Roarke Variable tone print with zero blue?
> 
> 5. Ignoring cost... would anyone care to give a perfectionists 
opinion 
> on whether the Piezo driver with the Full Spectrum inks gives 
superior 
> prints to the Epson driver?
> 
> 6. I'm not into the whole "blacker blacks" or "cooler tones" topics 
> that are issues for many.  My priority is dot-less output, 
continuous 
> tone, no posterization, near-zero ink bleed.  Given this would 
anyone 
> care to rank the quality of a) Piezo ink and b) MIS inks with c) 
Piezo 

> driver and d) Epson driver?
> 
> That's a lot of questions but thanks for any and all input.
> 
> Mike Dawson

Mike -- I've had some problems with posterization of blacks with the Brandin curves with MIS quadtones. In fact, I've started to ensure that there are no 100% blacks in my prints -- I make sure the darkest black is 98%, and the prints come out much better. I'm sure I'm losing some depths in the blacks though, which bothers me. The other shades seem fine to me.

Also, oddly enough, the regions of pure black sometimes appear LIGHTER than areas that are primarily 75%. Maybe I'm not really understanding how the curves worked. I'd think that I got the lines crossed on my CFS, but I was incredibly careful to make sure that I got the right inks in the right order, checking NUMEROUS times while setting up, labelling everything carefully, etc.

Overall, however, I still prefer the Brandin Curves to the Nevin transfer functions, since I really like the dotless prints...the Nevin dots seemed very apparent to me when I tried that workflow.

later,
-jeff

> Message: 12 
>    Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:08:09 -0000 
>    From: mike.dawson@... 
> Subject: Re: MIS vs. Piezo... again 
>  
> <snip>
>
> One question I really was hoping to get an answer to is whether my  
> negative experience with MIS inks and the Brandin curves vs. Piezo  
> could be corraborated by anyone else.  And I don't really mean to be  
> critical of the Brandin curves.  At the time I was new to the whole  
> digital thing so maybe I didn't give those curves a fair shake. 
> 
> <snip>
>

<jeffbl@a...> wrote:
>Maybe I'm not really understanding how the curves worked. I'd 
>think that I got the lines crossed on my CFS, but I was incredibly 
>careful to make sure that I got the right inks in the right order, 
>checking NUMEROUS times while setting up, labelling 
>everything carefully, etc.

Hi Jeff,

I read on the Epson list a little while ago that some people 
received mislabel inks from MIS. Some got two inks the same 
tone with different labels. You might look into it.

Best, John V

My MIS Variable Mix Inks should be here anyday! Full report to 
come!