Digital BW, The Print

Lawrence,

Is the image on your site a scan of a print with the VM inks or a copy of
the image file? I can see the flat tones in the cheek area.

Some images are more sensitive than others or may have an important or large
element that falls in a tonal area of a curve set that is not well
separated. There are several things to try.

Do all your adjustments in 16-bit mode if you can to minimize information
loss.

Try other RGB curves or combinations of curves to improve results.

Select the flat tones with the color select tool and increase the contrast
of that range using an adjustment curve.

Or a combination of these.

Martin


----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Smith" <lsmith@...>
To: "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint yahoogroups.com"
<DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 8:05 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Weekly Critiques are back in business....


> Hi all,
>
> If this is in bad form let me know...
>
> It's been quite a while since the last image was posted for critique.
This
> one was done using a friends D30.  I am having trouble printing it as the
> shadows on the cheek get WAY posterized using the VM inks and Paul's
curves.
> This is the first time this has happened.  It's quite strange.  I've
> successfully used this camera in the past.  Not really sure what is going
> on.  Anyway have a visit if you like and share your thoughts.
>
> http://www.lwsphoto.com
>
> Click on the Critique button.
>
>
> ----------------------------------
> Lawrence W. Smith Photography
> http://www.lwsphoto.com
> lsmith@...
> ----------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Larry,

A verry elegant image. It is hard to tell from the web page photo, but I
would assume that there is plenty of detail in the shadow area. Perhaps Paul
could help you out with this one. Again, nice expressive image.

Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Smith" <lsmith@...>
To: "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint yahoogroups.com"
<DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 11:05 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Weekly Critiques are back in business....


> Hi all,
>
> If this is in bad form let me know...
>
> It's been quite a while since the last image was posted for critique.
This
> one was done using a friends D30.  I am having trouble printing it as the
> shadows on the cheek get WAY posterized using the VM inks and Paul's
curves.
> This is the first time this has happened.  It's quite strange.  I've
> successfully used this camera in the past.  Not really sure what is going
> on.  Anyway have a visit if you like and share your thoughts.
>
> http://www.lwsphoto.com
>
> Click on the Critique button.
>
>
> ----------------------------------
> Lawrence W. Smith Photography
> http://www.lwsphoto.com
> lsmith@...
> ----------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

On 3/20/02 11:14 PM, "Martin Wesley" <mwesley250@...> wrote:

> Lawrence,
> 
> Is the image on your site a scan of a print with the VM inks or a copy of
> the image file? I can see the flat tones in the cheek area.

Martin,

This is a jpg of the file itself.  I did make all the adjustments in 16 bit
mode.  I will try your other suggestions and see what happens!  Thanks

Lawrence

----------------------------------
Lawrence W. Smith Photography
http://www.lwsphoto.com
lsmith@...
----------------------------------

Lawrence,

Since I believe I see the flatness you are talking about in the jpeg (a
circular area about the size of a quarter even with the edge of the nostril
and the corner of the eye on the right of the print with two freckles?).
Since you worked in 16-bit mode then I would go back and see if it is there
in the original file.

I ran into something similar in a portrait where there was some light
reflected up under the chin which came out as a single shade of gray. Ugh! I
tried several different things but the problem was with the negative in the
sense that the amount of separation recorded was so slight (or non-existent)
that it was beyond my scanner's capability to resolve it. This was on a 6x7
TMax 400 neg scanned with a Polaroid 120 at 4000dpi. I guess my point is
that the area maybe tonally flat because it was tonally flat in the scene.

Martin

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Smith" <lsmith@...>
To: "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint yahoogroups.com"
<DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Weekly Critiques are back in business....


> On 3/20/02 11:14 PM, "Martin Wesley" <mwesley250@...> wrote:
>
> > Lawrence,
> >
> > Is the image on your site a scan of a print with the VM inks or a copy
of
> > the image file? I can see the flat tones in the cheek area.
>
> Martin,
>
> This is a jpg of the file itself.  I did make all the adjustments in 16
bit
> mode.  I will try your other suggestions and see what happens!  Thanks
>
> Lawrence
>
> ----------------------------------
> Lawrence W. Smith Photography
> http://www.lwsphoto.com
> lsmith@...
> ----------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

I see the highlights in the face being posterized as well. I don't think you have enough actual detail in the shadows to do much. If the
detail isn't in the image, you can't get it. Also there is an outline of the whole head that probably shouldn't be there, looks like an old
fashioned mackie line from the wet darkroom days...

Jerry

Lawrence Smith wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> If this is in bad form let me know...
>
> It's been quite a while since the last image was posted for critique.  This
> one was done using a friends D30.  I am having trouble printing it as the
> shadows on the cheek get WAY posterized using the VM inks and Paul's curves.
> This is the first time this has happened.  It's quite strange.  I've
> successfully used this camera in the past.  Not really sure what is going
> on.  Anyway have a visit if you like and share your thoughts.
>
> http://www.lwsphoto.com
>
> Click on the Critique button.
>
> ----------------------------------
> Lawrence W. Smith Photography
> http://www.lwsphoto.com
> lsmith@...
> ----------------------------------
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

> I see the highlights in the face being posterized as well. I 
> don't think you have enough actual detail in the shadows to 
> do much. If the detail isn't in the image, you can't get it. 
> Also there is an outline of the whole head that probably 
> shouldn't be there, looks like an old fashioned mackie line 
> from the wet darkroom days...
> 
> Jerry
> 

Jerry,

This has been an interesting experiment with D30.  I used the 16 bit RAW
mode to capture, converted to 16 bit tiff and then did adjustments in
PS.  It is important to add that the image was underexposed about a stop
and I had to bring it up carefully in order to not introduce more noise
etc.  I am a digital camera neophyte and if I've learned anyhing it's
that underexposing is NOT a good thing!  LOL.  I was going to shoot this
as with my 645 as well but ran out of time and had to call it a night.
I wish I had been able to get a film version.  Oh well.  Thanks to all
for your feedback.  I'm going to work on the image some more and see if
it can be salvaged.  If not, it will be a 'web page only' deal ;-)

Lawrence

Lawrence,  Underexposure in the shadows or overexposure in the highlights is the kiss of death for digital. You can do much more with the
shadows than the highlights though. But if the detail isn't there, you can't get it.

Try selecting ALL the deep shadows, put a copy on its' own layer, and use the screen blending mode. This can bring out every last bit of
shadow detail, probably too much. You can fade it back to what looks good. This may work on your image, if there is anything in there to be
had.

Jerry



Lawrence Smith wrote:

> > I see the highlights in the face being posterized as well. I
> > don't think you have enough actual detail in the shadows to
> > do much. If the detail isn't in the image, you can't get it.
> > Also there is an outline of the whole head that probably
> > shouldn't be there, looks like an old fashioned mackie line
> > from the wet darkroom days...
> >
> > Jerry
> >
>
> Jerry,
>
> This has been an interesting experiment with D30.  I used the 16 bit RAW
> mode to capture, converted to 16 bit tiff and then did adjustments in
> PS.  It is important to add that the image was underexposed about a stop
> and I had to bring it up carefully in order to not introduce more noise
> etc.  I am a digital camera neophyte and if I've learned anyhing it's
> that underexposing is NOT a good thing!  LOL.  I was going to shoot this
> as with my 645 as well but ran out of time and had to call it a night.
> I wish I had been able to get a film version.  Oh well.  Thanks to all
> for your feedback.  I'm going to work on the image some more and see if
> it can be salvaged.  If not, it will be a 'web page only' deal ;-)
>
> Lawrence
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/