Digital BW, The Print

I seem to have no luck with digital black & white.

I started with the Piezography system on an 1160 printer.  Got beautiful, stunning results.  But after a few months the dreaded "Density Shift Syndrome" (DSS) set in with severely washed out midtones and a greenish cast.  Inkjet mall was very good about sending me replacement cartridges for my CIS system.  I reinstalled Piezo inks in a new 1160 and got beautiful results again....for about 4-6 weeks.  Then signs of DSS appeared in the new printer.  I reluctantly decided to throw in the towel with Piezo inks and give MIS FS inks a try after reading so many good things about them in this group.

Today I hooked up new cartridges on my CIS system,filled them with new MIS FS ink, and got perfect nozzle checks the first time.  Then I tried printing only to discover that I still have absolutely no density in the mid-tones.  The prints are actually worse than my worst Piezo DSS prints - almost solarized.

I just printed a gray-scale step-wedge and found that things appear normal from about 0% to around 30% and from about 85-90% to 100%.  But from about 35% to 80% things are a real mess.  There's a catastrophic drop in density from 85% to 80%, no discernable difference in density from about 60% to 80%, and the density at 50-55% is actually greater than from 60% to 80%.

What is going on?  If any of you can give me some guidance, I'd appreciate it very much.  To help eliminate some variables:

1. I am printing on the right side of the paper (I'm using EAM with the logo on the back).
2.  I double and triple-checked the inks before loading my CIS system.  I am certain that I loaded the inks, as labeled by MIS, in the right positions.

Here's what I'm afraid of.  Could a severe case of DSS with the Piezo inks have done permanent damage o my print head?  I did put the MIS inks into the 1160 that had a very bad case of DSS, but I have run a full set of Epson cartridges through it since then and it seemed to be printing just fine with the color inks (although I didn't ever print anything too critical with it and carefully analyze the results).

Any thoughts, suggestions, advice, etc. would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Jim

Hi,
 I also changed from the Piezo inks to the MIS FS neutral inks for 
the same reasons, the support that i got from InjetMall was 
disgusting. I have stayed with their software because it works.
I have a 3000 and a 1160. It was the 3000 that I recently put the 
MiS inks in. They  (InjetMall) claimed that the green shift was 
caused be the ink base seperating from  the pigment, thus causing a 
sludge to build up in the cartridge. If this is so, then it is 
possible that the same sludge could cause a big blockage in the 
printhead. It seems to me that if one nozzle is blocked, ink is 
forced backwards from another nozzle giving the wrong color.(grey) 
Whatever the reason, I found that cleaning the head in one of the 
many methods cured the problem with the new inkset. 
The way I cleared my 1160, from a big clog was to load up a syringe 
with Windex and force it directly into the head with the cart 
removed with both a pumping and sucking action. It worked for me.
Keep going, I am sure that you will fix the problem. 
By the way, the FS neutral ink produced quite a different step wedge 
than the cone (Sundance)inks. 

Barry
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Jim HARRIS" 
<harrisji@u...> wrote:
> I seem to have no luck with digital black & white.
> 
> I started with the Piezography system on an 1160 printer.  Got 
beautiful, stunning results.  But after a few months the 
dreaded "Density Shift Syndrome" (DSS) set in with severely washed 
out midtones and a greenish cast.  Inkjet mall was very good about 
sending me replacement cartridges for my CIS system.  I reinstalled 
Piezo inks in a new 1160 and got beautiful results again....for 
about 4-6 weeks.  Then signs of DSS appeared in the new printer.  I 
reluctantly decided to throw in the towel with Piezo inks and give 
MIS FS inks a try after reading so many good things about them in 
this group.
> 
> Today I hooked up new cartridges on my CIS system,filled them with 
new MIS FS ink, and got perfect nozzle checks the first time.  Then 
I tried printing only to discover that I still have absolutely no 
density in the mid-tones.  The prints are actually worse than my 
worst Piezo DSS prints - almost solarized.
> 
> I just printed a gray-scale step-wedge and found that things 
appear normal from about 0% to around 30% and from about 85-90% to 
100%.  But from about 35% to 80% things are a real mess.  There's a 
catastrophic drop in density from 85% to 80%, no discernable 
difference in density from about 60% to 80%, and the density at 50-
55% is actually greater than from 60% to 80%.
> 
> What is going on?  If any of you can give me some guidance, I'd 
appreciate it very much.  To help eliminate some variables:
> 
> 1. I am printing on the right side of the paper (I'm using EAM 
with the logo on the back).
> 2.  I double and triple-checked the inks before loading my CIS 
system.  I am certain that I loaded the inks, as labeled by MIS, in 
the right positions.
> 
> Here's what I'm afraid of.  Could a severe case of DSS with the 
Piezo inks have done permanent damage o my print head?  I did put 
the MIS inks into the 1160 that had a very bad case of DSS, but I 
have run a full set of Epson cartridges through it since then and it 
seemed to be printing just fine with the color inks (although I 
didn't ever print anything too critical with it and carefully 
analyze the results).

> 
> Any thoughts, suggestions, advice, etc. would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jim

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Jim HARRIS" <harrisji@u...> 
wrote:

> 
> Here's what I'm afraid of.  Could a severe case of DSS with the 
Piezo inks have done permanent damage o my print head?  I did put the 
MIS inks into the 1160 that had a very bad case of DSS, but I have run 
a full set of Epson cartridges through it since then and it seemed to 
be printing just fine with the color inks (although I didn't ever 
print anything too critical with it and carefully analyze the 
results).
> 

> Jim

This is unproven. In my case, I didn't want to take chances, I had 
only one 1160 brand new in box left as backup. I never ran Piezo in 
it. When I switched to MIS, I switched to the backup 1160 as well.

You are descibing a terminal case of classic DSS I and others 
originally defined it. "Terminal" meaning it's about as bad off in 
tone as it will ever get.

I have found that putting Epson carts in for awhile and then returning 
old piezo ink to printer helped, but not completey eliminated problem. 
Someone else had better success with the direct injection method, but 
only with Fantastik, not Windex. They got 100% restoration of piezo 
density. So it might allow the MIS ink to work better too. You do run 
a risk of damaging your printhead. I guess if you do, you can always 
just have a new head installed by someone with the correct Epson tech 
software to do the alignments. If you want to buy a $10  injection kit 
that comes with enlarged tubing to fit over nozzle, MIS sells it. 
Don't try removing the head yourself.
Jim H.

I switched to MIS FS and haven't had a problem since.  I noticed on my
machine that when running the Epson ink through it in an attempt to clear up
a Piezo ink clog, it was more successful if I left it in for several weeks;
the amount of time seemed more important than the amount of ink.  Also, try
running a cleaning cart through it.  That may also help.

Stephen

STEPHEN    JENNINGS
    P h o t o g r a p h e r
       Cambridge, MA
sgjennin@...

> 
> I seem to have no luck with digital black & white.
> 
> Today I hooked up new cartridges on my CIS system,filled them with new MIS FS
> ink, and got perfect nozzle checks the first time.  Then I tried printing only
> to discover that I still have absolutely no density in the mid-tones.  The
> prints are actually worse than my worst Piezo DSS prints - almost solarized.
> 
> I just printed a gray-scale step-wedge and found that things appear normal
> from about 0% to around 30% and from about 85-90% to 100%.  But from about 35%
> to 80% things are a real mess.  There's a catastrophic drop in density from
> 85% to 80%, no discernable difference in density from about 60% to 80%, and
> the density at 50-55% is actually greater than from 60% to 80%.
> 
> What is going on?  If any of you can give me some guidance, I'd appreciate it
> very much.  To help eliminate some variables:
> 
> 1. I am printing on the right side of the paper (I'm using EAM with the logo
> on the back).
> 2.  I double and triple-checked the inks before loading my CIS system.  I am
> certain that I loaded the inks, as labeled by MIS, in the right positions.
> 
> Here's what I'm afraid of.  Could a severe case of DSS with the Piezo inks
> have done permanent damage o my print head?  I did put the MIS inks into the
> 1160 that had a very bad case of DSS, but I have run a full set of Epson
> cartridges through it since then and it seemed to be printing just fine with
> the color inks (although I didn't ever print anything too critical with it and
> carefully analyze the results).
> 
> Any thoughts, suggestions, advice, etc. would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jim

Jim-

Those are the reasons I switched to MIS inks also. 

(Jerry- on an 1160, at least, the ink placement is the same for the 
piezo driver as epson.)

I would tell you to exercise patience and try the radical steps like 
forcing fantastic through the print head only as the last resort. 
Windex or fantastic on the pad, soaking, running some epson carts all 
helped me. The final thing that kept it from coming back was putting 
cleaning carts in and leaving them in for a week or two, running a 
flush file every day and a cleaning cycle...and letting it sit.

Sounds lousy, but once it's fixed and you get started with the MIS, 
you won't have problems again, so it's worth the patience.

Tom O'Connell

TomOC@...
www.thomasoconnell.com


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Jim HARRIS" 
<harrisji@u...> wrote:
> I seem to have no luck with digital black & white.
> 
> I started with the Piezography system on an 1160 printer.  Got 
beautiful, stunning results.  But after a few months the 
dreaded "Density Shift Syndrome" (DSS) set in with severely washed 
out midtones and a greenish cast.  Inkjet mall was very good about 
sending me replacement cartridges for my CIS system.  I reinstalled 
Piezo inks in a new 1160 and got beautiful results again....for about 
4-6 weeks.  Then signs of DSS appeared in the new printer.  I 
reluctantly decided to throw in the towel with Piezo inks and give 
MIS FS inks a try after reading so many good things about them in 
this group.
> 
> Today I hooked up new cartridges on my CIS system,filled them with 
new MIS FS ink, and got perfect nozzle checks the first time.  Then I 
tried printing only to discover that I still have absolutely no 
density in the mid-tones.  The prints are actually worse than my 
worst Piezo DSS prints - almost solarized.
> 
> I just printed a gray-scale step-wedge and found that things appear 
normal from about 0% to around 30% and from about 85-90% to 100%.  
But from about 35% to 80% things are a real mess.  There's a 
catastrophic drop in density from 85% to 80%, no discernable 
difference in density from about 60% to 80%, and the density at 50-
55% is actually greater than from 60% to 80%.
> 
> What is going on?  If any of you can give me some guidance, I'd 
appreciate it very much.  To help eliminate some variables:
> 
> 1. I am printing on the right side of the paper (I'm using EAM with 
the logo on the back).
> 2.  I double and triple-checked the inks before loading my CIS 
system.  I am certain that I loaded the inks, as labeled by MIS, in 
the right positions.
> 
> Here's what I'm afraid of.  Could a severe case of DSS with the 
Piezo inks have done permanent damage o my print head?  I did put the 
MIS inks into the 1160 that had a very bad case of DSS, but I have 
run a full set of Epson cartridges through it since then and it 
seemed to be printing just fine with the color inks (although I 
didn't ever print anything too critical with it and carefully analyze 
the results).

> 
> Any thoughts, suggestions, advice, etc. would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jim