Digital BW, The Print

Has anyone compiled a list of papers that started with the base paper 
and then showed the various names placed on the paper from re-
sellers? This might be worthwhile because I for one, find it 
confusing and hard to keep track of. This is a great list with lots 
of good information. I have gone through all the posts and really 
find it helpful and interesting. Thank you.

Tim

Tim,
ask Antonis to send you his unbeatable paper-database, which is in 
the Filemaker V format though. He generously offers it for free. If 
you havn´t got Filemaker I can offer a short list of synonymes.
Bernd



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., tyork@a... wrote:
> Has anyone compiled a list of papers that started with the base 
paper 

> and then showed the various names placed on the paper from re-
> sellers? This might be worthwhile because I for one, find it 
> confusing and hard to keep track of. This is a great list with lots 
> of good information. I have gone through all the posts and really 
> find it helpful and interesting. Thank you.
> 
> Tim

Thank you for the suggestion Bernd. And I will take you up on the 
offer as I don't have filemaker V.

Regards

Tim









--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., ruhrfoto@y... wrote:
> Tim,
> ask Antonis to send you his unbeatable paper-database, which is in 
> the Filemaker V format though. He generously offers it for free. If 
> you havn´t got Filemaker I can offer a short list of synonymes.
> Bernd
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., tyork@a... wrote:
> > Has anyone compiled a list of papers that started with the base 
> paper 
> > and then showed the various names placed on the paper from re-
> > sellers? This might be worthwhile because I for one, find it 
> > confusing and hard to keep track of. This is a great list with 
lots 

> > of good information. I have gone through all the posts and really 
> > find it helpful and interesting. Thank you.
> > 
> > Tim

Bernd,

If you send me your synonym list as an HTML file directly to 
mwesley250@..., I will post it in the files section of the 
Group's homepage so that it will be easily accessible to everyone 
without having to hunt back through the list. We can update as things 
change.

Martin

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., tyork@a... wrote:
> Thank you for the suggestion Bernd. And I will take you up on the 
> offer as I don't have filemaker V.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Tim
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., ruhrfoto@y... wrote:
> > Tim,
> > ask Antonis to send you his unbeatable paper-database, which is 
in 
> > the Filemaker V format though. He generously offers it for free. 
If 
> > you havn´t got Filemaker I can offer a short list of synonymes.
> > Bernd
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., tyork@a... wrote:
> > > Has anyone compiled a list of papers that started with the base 
> > paper 
> > > and then showed the various names placed on the paper from re-
> > > sellers? This might be worthwhile because I for one, find it 
> > > confusing and hard to keep track of. This is a great list with 
> lots 
> > > of good information. I have gone through all the posts and 
really 

> > > find it helpful and interesting. Thank you.
> > > 
> > > Tim

Has anyone on this list used any of these papers? I would appreciate 
knowing what inks you used with them and how you made out.

1.Albrecht Durer 210
2.Hahnemuhle 230
3.Torchon 285
4.Turner 300
5.Hahnemuhle 100% cotton canvas 580
6.Hahnemuhle cotton/poly canvas 575

I am considering using MIS or Generations inks with my 1280. Piezo is 
also a possibility but cost is also a factor. I am an amateur 
photographer and this is a hobby. If I could impose a little further, 
my url is www.portraitsofnature.net, you can see from the images on 
it the kind of images I will be printing. If any of you have 
recommendations, based on the type of photography I do, regarding 
inks and paper, please let me know. Thank you.

Regards


Tim

To Tim and to whom it may concern:

This is a small excerpt from Antonis´ paper database compiled 
by Antonis  with some modifications by me (credits to Antonis).
I generally put the Hahnemühle Papers first, because the other 
names are the relabeled brands by the distributors/resellers.

Natural Hahnemühle papers have always been acid free, 
coatings have been a different matter until fall 2000 (ph value 
about 5, which means acidic). All coatings are now alkaline (ph 
8) since Hahnemühle completed coating by adding alkaline 
reserve in fall 2000 to keep the entire paper acid free.
Print characteristics did not change  -  as they claim.

Paper names:

Hahnemühle German Etching 310 (Inkjet genuine mould made):
Royal Plush, Frankfurt Art, Vienna, Conetech Orwell, Luminos 
Classic Velour, Lyson Fine Art Standard

Hahnemühle W. Turner 310 (100% Rag, mould made):
Lyson Cotton Rag

Hahnemühle Torchon 285 (Inkjet Watercolor Paper): 
Royal Riviera 285 gsm, Lyson Soft Fine Art, 
Lumijet Museum Parchment  

Hahnemühle Albrecht Durer 210 (Watercolor paper):
Royal Weave 210 gsm (Contech Chelsea??? don´t find my 
sample in the mement to proof)

Hahnemühle W. Turner 190 (100% Rag, mould made):
Royal Jazz, Wells River, Luminos Woven Fiber

Hahnemühle Photo Matte 170
Conetech Matte.

Hahnemühle Allegretto 160 (Inkjet Watercolor Paper)
Royal Sunrise, Conetech Tunbridge

Words in brackets are Hahnemühle comments, not mine.
Errors possible. Corrections and completion greatly 
appreceated by Antonis I suppose.

Bernd






--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., tyork@a... wrote:
> Thank you for the suggestion Bernd. And I will take you up on 
the 
> offer as I don't have filemaker V.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Tim

> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., ruhrfoto@y... wrote:
> > Tim,
> > ask Antonis to send you his unbeatable paper-database, 
which is in 
> > the Filemaker V format though. He generously offers it for 
free. If 
> > you havn´t got Filemaker I can offer a short list of synonymes.
> > Bernd
> > 
>
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., tyork@a... wrote:
> > > Has anyone compiled a list of papers that started with the 
base 
> > paper 
> > > and then showed the various names placed on the paper 
from re-
> > > sellers? This might be worthwhile because I for one, find it 
> > > confusing and hard to keep track of. This is a great list with 
> lots 
> > > of good information. I have gone through all the posts and 
really 
> > > find it helpful and interesting. Thank you.
> > > 
> > > Tim--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., tyork@a... 
wrote:
> Has anyone on this list used any of these papers? I would 
appreciate 
> knowing what inks you used with them and how you made out.
> 
> 1.Albrecht Durer 210
> 2.Hahnemuhle 230
> 3.Torchon 285
> 4.Turner 300
> 5.Hahnemuhle 100% cotton canvas 580
> 6.Hahnemuhle cotton/poly canvas 575
> 
> I am considering using MIS or Generations inks with my 1280. 
Piezo is 
> also a possibility but cost is also a factor. I am an amateur 
> photographer and this is a hobby. If I could impose a little 
further, 
> my url is www.portraitsofnature.net, you can see from the 
images on 
> it the kind of images I will be printing. If any of you have 
> recommendations, based on the type of photography I do, 
regarding 

> inks and paper, please let me know. Thank you.
> 
> Regards
> 
> 
> Tim

Bernd,

thanks for posting this. You will, no doubt see my database available for 
download in the Files area. It is not yet updated with some of the info you 
mention below, but a revision should be coming soon. I made it public so 
people can start exploring immediately and also to see how many people can 
use it in FileMaker version. 

On behaf of the list, apologies for the earlier thread drift. Matin and I are new 
to this and our moderator skills clearly lacking!!

So, thanks for your efforts in bringing everyone up to date and posting this 
data which is far more accessible than my whole entire database. If it's OK 
with you, I may compile some of these messages in a text file and upload that 
as well. It would make basic info readily available and will save us from 
having to repeat it when new members ask similar questions.

Thanks again and welcome here!

Antonis

Tim,

I am going to split this into two threads. Bernd has already picked 
up the paper side of your question.

As for the inks, give either the MIS or Generations or ?? cartridges 
a try. ConeTech has not yet released Piezo for the 1280 but may be 
coming soon. You are in a really good position to give the other 
inksets a try.

If you decide to give the Piezo a try when it comes out for the 1280 
you can load the software and continue to use whatever inks you have 
left in what ever cartridges you try now. There are people printing 
using the Piezo driver with other ink sets or combinations of ink 
sets. Hopefully one of them will jump in here with more infor on this.

Check out MIS's latest ink sets. They have just come up with some new 
stuff.

http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/quadtone.html

Paul Roark has apparently been working with them to bring some of his 
ideas to market.

http://home1.gte.net/res0a2zt/photos.html

I hope that Paul will join us and share some of the extensive work he 
has done. The fact that his work was missing from other lists was a 
significant factor in the decision to start up this group.

I visited your website and you have a set nice images. The multiple 
waterfall and the branch in the snow were my favorites. You have a 
seperate section for digital images but don't mention what you used 
to shoot them with.

Welcome!

Martin Wesley






--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., tyork@a... wrote:
> Has anyone on this list used any of these papers? I would 
appreciate 
> knowing what inks you used with them and how you made out.
> 
> 1.Albrecht Durer 210
> 2.Hahnemuhle 230
> 3.Torchon 285
> 4.Turner 300
> 5.Hahnemuhle 100% cotton canvas 580
> 6.Hahnemuhle cotton/poly canvas 575
> 
> I am considering using MIS or Generations inks with my 1280. Piezo 
is 
> also a possibility but cost is also a factor. I am an amateur 
> photographer and this is a hobby. If I could impose a little 
further, 

> my url is www.portraitsofnature.net, you can see from the images on 
> it the kind of images I will be printing. If any of you have 
> recommendations, based on the type of photography I do, regarding 
> inks and paper, please let me know. Thank you.
> 
> Regards
> 
> 
> Tim

on 7/31/01 4:09 PM, tyork@... wrote:

> I am considering using MIS or Generations inks with my 1280. Piezo is
> also a possibility but cost is also a factor. I am an amateur
> photographer and this is a hobby. If I could impose a little further,
> my url is www.portraitsofnature.net, you can see from the images on
> it the kind of images I will be printing. If any of you have
> recommendations, based on the type of photography I do, regarding
> inks and paper, please let me know. Thank you.
> 

Tim,

When you ask about the MIS or Generations inks, are you speaking of using
them for color or BW? The advice may vary depending on how you answer that
question, as well as whether color gamut is more or less important to you
than longevity, and whether you prefer matte or glossy (and semi-gloss)
papers. 

Tell us more.

Todd

Antonis
I can't read the mac files so I will have to wait until someone on 
the list can convert them to windows format. Thank you though for 
trying. I appreciate your help.

Tim









--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., antonisphoto@y... wrote:
> Bernd,
> 
> thanks for posting this. You will, no doubt see my database 
available for 
> download in the Files area. It is not yet updated with some of the 
info you 
> mention below, but a revision should be coming soon. I made it 
public so 
> people can start exploring immediately and also to see how many 
people can 
> use it in FileMaker version. 
> 
> On behaf of the list, apologies for the earlier thread drift. Matin 
and I are new 
> to this and our moderator skills clearly lacking!!
> 
> So, thanks for your efforts in bringing everyone up to date and 
posting this 
> data which is far more accessible than my whole entire database. If 
it's OK 
> with you, I may compile some of these messages in a text file and 
upload that 
> as well. It would make basic info readily available and will save 
us from 

> having to repeat it when new members ask similar questions.
> 
> Thanks again and welcome here!
> 
> Antonis

Tim,

the issue is not PC vs Mac but Filemaker vs other formats. FM is available on 
both platforms and can read its own files either way. But making the data 
available for _other_ PC programs requires that you (or others) tell me what 
format they prefer (such as comma- or tab- delimited, SYLK, DBF,WKS etc).

Antonis

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., tyork@a... wrote:

> Antonis
> I can't read the mac files so I will have to wait until someone on 
> the list can convert them to windows format. Thank you though for 
> trying. I appreciate your help.
> 
> Tim

I have recently set up an epson 980 (my 1160 is on the way) with the 
preizo continuous ink system.
I am seeking information on your findings as to the best paper to use 
with this system. Should I stay with the cone and epson papers as the 
software supports it, should I move to another brand? What and how 
would I set the software to print on other median(?)

I will be framing for long term wall hanging and I like to use the 
heavier base stuff.

thanks in advance

dave

Greetings all,

	I know there is a list somewhere showing the names of the various papers
used by different resellers but I can't remember where to find it.  Does
anyone remember where it is?  Is Mediastreet Royal Renaissance (Photo Rag)
309 gsm the same paper as the ConeTech/Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 308gsm?  Thanks
in advance.

Cheers,

Ian

> 	I know there is a list somewhere showing the names of the various papers
> used by different resellers but I can't remember where to find it.  Does
> anyone remember where it is? 

Ian, look in our files section under Papers. (Visit the group home page)



 Is Mediastreet Royal Renaissance (Photo Rag)
> 309 gsm the same paper as the ConeTech/Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 
308gsm? 

Yes.

FYI:  Only Hahnemuhle has allowed this naming game to go on. Other paper 
manufacturers distribute under their names - even Epson's rebranding allows 
for some connection to the original makers.  Hahnemuele's little game was 
busted about a year ago, however, so, thanks to lists like this, we can now 
compare prices across distibutors. 

Antonis

Hello Antonis,

	Thanks that's great - I was looking in the database.  It's past my bedtime.

Cheers,

Ian

-----Original Message-----
From: Antonis Ricos [mailto:antonisphoto@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 9:11 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: papers


>       I know there is a list somewhere showing the names of the various
papers
> used by different resellers but I can't remember where to find it.  Does
> anyone remember where it is?

Ian, look in our files section under Papers. (Visit the group home page)



 Is Mediastreet Royal Renaissance (Photo Rag)
> 309 gsm the same paper as the ConeTech/Hahnemuhle Photo Rag
308gsm?

Yes.

FYI:  Only Hahnemuhle has allowed this naming game to go on. Other paper
manufacturers distribute under their names - even Epson's rebranding allows
for some connection to the original makers.  Hahnemuele's little game was
busted about a year ago, however, so, thanks to lists like this, we can now
compare prices across distibutors.

Antonis

----- Original Message -----

From: "Antonis Ricos" <antonisphoto@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 6:10 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: papers


> FYI:  Only Hahnemuhle has allowed this naming game to go on. Other paper
> manufacturers distribute under their names - even Epson's rebranding
allows
> for some connection to the original makers.  Hahnemuele's little game was
> busted about a year ago, however, so, thanks to lists like this, we can
now
> compare prices across distibutors.

Make it '3 years ago'. That's when I started using Hahnemuhle papers instead
of the 'Lyson' variety.
And first wrote about the disguises.

Ernst

Thursday, September 19, 2002, 9:00:26 PM, Ian wrote:

I> Greetings all,

I>         I know there is a list somewhere showing the names of the various papers
I> used by different resellers but I can't remember where to find it.  Does
I> anyone remember where it is?

I think you mean in the Files list of this group's Yahoo area:

Here first:
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint>

Then, Files } Papers


I> Is Mediastreet Royal Renaissance (Photo Rag)
I> 309 gsm the same paper as the ConeTech/Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 308gsm?  Thanks
I> in advance.

I have been told more than once that Mediastreet Royal Renaissance is
Hahnemuhle Photo Rag.



Best regards,
 Richard  

mailto:richard@...

Links to my galleries:
http://fujirangefinder.com/document.php?id=246

Ian, Here's what I have:


Paper names:

Hahnem\ufffdhle German Etching 310 (Inkjet genuine mould made):
Royal Plush, Frankfurt Art, Vienna, Conetech Orwell, Luminos 
Classic Velour, Lyson Fine Art Standard

Hahnem\ufffdhle W. Turner 310 (100% Rag, mould made):
Lyson Cotton Rag

Hahnem\ufffdhle Torchon 285 (Inkjet Watercolor Paper): 
Royal Riviera 285 gsm, Lyson Soft Fine Art, 
Lumijet Museum Parchment  

Hahnem\ufffdhle Albrecht Durer 210 (Watercolor paper):
Royal Weave 210 gsm (Contech Chelsea??? don\ufffdt find my 
sample in the mement to proof)

Hahnem\ufffdhle W. Turner 190 (100% Rag, mould made):
Royal Jazz, Wells River, Luminos Woven Fiber

Hahnem\ufffdhle Photo Matte 170
Conetech Matte, glacier matte (Media street)

Hahnem\ufffdhle Allegretto 160 (Inkjet Watercolor Paper)
Royal Sunrise, Conetech Tunbridge

Jerry


Ian wrote:

> 
> Greetings all,
> 
>         I know there is a list somewhere showing the names of the various papers
> used by different resellers but I can't remember where to find it.  Does
> anyone remember where it is?  Is Mediastreet Royal Renaissance (Photo Rag)
> 309 gsm the same paper as the ConeTech/Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 308gsm?  Thanks
> in advance.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Ian
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Hello Jerry,

	Thanks for the information - I'll file it away.

Cheers,

Ian

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Olson [mailto:jerryolson@...]
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 8:57 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] papers

Ian, Here's what I have:


Paper names:

Hahnem\ufffdhle German Etching 310 (Inkjet genuine mould made):
Royal Plush, Frankfurt Art, Vienna, Conetech Orwell, Luminos
Classic Velour, Lyson Fine Art Standard

Hahnem\ufffdhle W. Turner 310 (100% Rag, mould made):
Lyson Cotton Rag

Hahnem\ufffdhle Torchon 285 (Inkjet Watercolor Paper):
Royal Riviera 285 gsm, Lyson Soft Fine Art,
Lumijet Museum Parchment

Hahnem\ufffdhle Albrecht Durer 210 (Watercolor paper):
Royal Weave 210 gsm (Contech Chelsea??? don\ufffdt find my
sample in the mement to proof)

Hahnem\ufffdhle W. Turner 190 (100% Rag, mould made):
Royal Jazz, Wells River, Luminos Woven Fiber

Hahnem\ufffdhle Photo Matte 170
Conetech Matte, glacier matte (Media street)

Hahnem\ufffdhle Allegretto 160 (Inkjet Watercolor Paper)
Royal Sunrise, Conetech Tunbridge

Jerry