Digital BW, The Print

In a message dated 4/15/02 5:10:14 AM, julianthomas@... writes:

<< Hi all,
Has anyone tried outputting a PS file to a film recorder to get a 5x4 neg??

Julian
-----------------------------------
Julian Thomas
Bruc 168-6-1
08037 Barcelona >>

Yes, it is rather expensive, but it can work very well, and very little 
adjustment is needed.  Using an imagesetter for contact printing is another 
thing entirely-much less expensive, but more difficult.  Check 
DanBurkholder.com for more info.

All the best!

-Andrew Darlow

Photography, Digital Print Consulting and Custom Editions
Andrew Darlow Images International, NYC www.andydarlow.com
Author: Inkjet Tip of the Month Club (newsletter) 
To subscribe, send e-mail to: Inkjettips-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

thanks Andrew. I've looked at Dan's site, but isn't that more for contact
printing?? I'd like to output a print from a 6x6 neg inverted to neg ion PS
after getting a perfect (hah! that'll be theday) to 5x4 and then get a wet
print enlargement done. I've been quoted 150usd (gulp) for a 5x4 output from
a film recorder.

Julian

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: <shashinka@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] digital neg


>
> In a message dated 4/15/02 5:10:14 AM, julianthomas@... writes:
>
> << Hi all,
> Has anyone tried outputting a PS file to a film recorder to get a 5x4
neg??
>
> Julian
> -----------------------------------
> Julian Thomas
> Bruc 168-6-1
> 08037 Barcelona >>
>
> Yes, it is rather expensive, but it can work very well, and very little
> adjustment is needed.  Using an imagesetter for contact printing is
another
> thing entirely-much less expensive, but more difficult.  Check
> DanBurkholder.com for more info.
>
> All the best!
>
> -Andrew Darlow
>
> Photography, Digital Print Consulting and Custom Editions
> Andrew Darlow Images International, NYC www.andydarlow.com
> Author: Inkjet Tip of the Month Club (newsletter)
> To subscribe, send e-mail to: Inkjettips-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
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>
>
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>
>
>

Andrew - Can you let me know what lab you've used that does the output to 
4x5" negative film?  The ones in my region seem to be set up only for 
transparency film.

Thanks!

Stephen Petegorsky

In a message dated 4/15/02 11:22:24 AM, julianthomas@... writes:

>thanks Andrew. I've looked at Dan's site, but isn't that more for contact
>printing?? I'd like to output a print from a 6x6 neg inverted to neg ion
>PS
>after getting a perfect (hah! that'll be theday) to 5x4 and then get a
>wet
>print enlargement done. I've been quoted 150usd (gulp) for a 5x4 output
>from
>a film recorder.

If you are going to "get" a wet print enlargement done, as opposed to wanting 
to mess about in your own darkroom with it, then you can avoid this whole 
process, and have wet prints made directly from your digital files with a 
LightJet or Lambda.

C. David Tobie
Design Cooperative
CDTobie@...

>
> If you are going to "get" a wet print enlargement done, as
> opposed to wanting
> to mess about in your own darkroom with it, then you can avoid this whole
> process, and have wet prints made directly from your digital files with a
> LightJet or Lambda.
>
> C. David Tobie

Has anyone got B&W Lightjet prints made (presumably on colour paper) from
B&W scans?

How well do the come out?

tim

I've seen samples and I guess for some things they are fine. I'd certainly
use Lambda for colour. But for BW, IMO, they are NOT 'fine art', and there
is an inherent inflexibility in paper choice. Having seen some prints on
Ilford FB warmtone, i want the option of getting MY version of my prints
done on something similar.

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Atherton" <timphoto@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 7:48 PM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] digital neg


> >
> > If you are going to "get" a wet print enlargement done, as
> > opposed to wanting
> > to mess about in your own darkroom with it, then you can avoid this
whole
> > process, and have wet prints made directly from your digital files with
a
> > LightJet or Lambda.
> >
> > C. David Tobie
>
> Has anyone got B&W Lightjet prints made (presumably on colour paper) from
> B&W scans?
>
> How well do the come out?
>
> tim
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
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>
>
>

In a message dated 4/15/02 2:36:58 PM, timphoto@... writes:

>Has anyone got B&W Lightjet prints made (presumably on colour paper) from
>B&W scans?
>
>How well do the come out?

The result is in direct relation to the quality of the Lightjet or Lambda ICC 
profile used... since I've never done it without profiling the device myself, 
I can't tell you how typical machines fare... only that carefully profiled 
ones produce nice results.

C. David Tobie
Design Cooperative
CDTobie@...

Julian wrote:

>I've seen samples and I guess for some things they are fine. I'd certainly
>use Lambda for colour. But for BW, IMO, they are NOT 'fine art', and there
>is an inherent inflexibility in paper choice. Having seen some prints on
>Ilford FB warmtone, i want the option of getting MY version of my prints
>done on something similar.

I agree that the color paper solution is not what I was looking for when I
went through this search.  However, I could find no
direct-to-B&W-fiber-paper digital output at that time.  So, I used
imagesetter negatives for contact printing, and I used several types of
negatives that I enlarged.

None of these internegative systems gave me the image quality or
satisfaction of the inkjet prints we are now using, but I understand the
latest imagesetters are better than the one I was using in the early-1990's.
Also, after spending substantial money for an LVT internegative that turned
out to be soft, I decided it was just getting too expensive and too much of
a hassle.

I have kept my wet darkroom, but I must say what I'd really like to find is
a direct-to-fiber-silver-print method that I could use after perfecting the
image with the inkjet outputs.  If there was a lab with a digital output for
color paper, I'd be interested to see if a silver print could be exposed.
Perhaps there are inherent, technological limitations to this, but I suspect
it is economic.  I suspect the market is too small to bother with.

If I can get to know some lab in Santa Barbara with one of the color
machines, I'll volunteer my time to calibrate the machine for silver.  If it
can be calibrated such that a standardized inkjet output (perhaps Piezo
driver?) could be used as a proof, then I would think that a mail-order,
very large geographical (world?) B&W market might make the system economic.

I will continue to search for such a solution, because (I hate to say it)
the archival silver print is likely to remain the favored output with
collectors for a long time.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com



_________________
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Atherton" <timphoto@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 7:48 PM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] digital neg


> >
> > If you are going to "get" a wet print enlargement done, as
> > opposed to wanting
> > to mess about in your own darkroom with it, then you can avoid this
whole
> > process, and have wet prints made directly from your digital files with
a

> > LightJet or Lambda.
> >
> > C. David Tobie
>
> Has anyone got B&W Lightjet prints made (presumably on colour paper) from
> B&W scans?
>
> How well do the come out?
>
> tim

> If you are going to "get" a wet print enlargement done, as opposed 
to wanting 
> to mess about in your own darkroom with it, then you can avoid this 
whole 
> process, and have wet prints made directly from your digital files 
with a 
> LightJet or Lambda.

Not if you want a palladium/platinum print :)

Don Bryant

On 4/15/02 4:14 PM, "CDTobie@..." <CDTobie@...> wrote:

>> Has anyone got B&W Lightjet prints made (presumably on colour paper) from
>> B&W scans?
>> 
>> How well do the come out?
> 
> The result is in direct relation to the quality of the Lightjet or Lambda ICC
> profile used... since I've never done it without profiling the device myself,
> I can't tell you how typical machines fare... only that carefully profiled
> ones produce nice results.

I've been considering this for a while now for a project of mine that will
need HUGE prints. Most labs with a lightjet will run a sample for you for
not much. This way you can test the quality of their profile.

-- 
John Brownlow

http://www.pinkheadedbug.com

In a message dated 04/15/2002 2:10:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
julianthomas@... writes:


> Hi all,
> Has anyone tried outputting a PS file to a film recorder to get a 5x4 neg??
> 
Before quadtone black printing came along, I used to do it quite alot. To 
save money I would collage 4 4x5 files on to a single 8x10 file and then cut 
them down myself. Phil Baird has some tests on his web site and he probably 
is getting negs as good as they can be for black and white. There are not 
many labs doing this in black and white,. It doesn't take a huge file, 20-40 
mb was enough at the time for a 4x5 neg. Your limited by the output res of 
the film recorder. The fire 1000 that I used to use was 1000 dpi so an 8x10 
was about 80mb. If you use color output machines even if they write their 
data to t-max film you'll pay triple as they charge by file size and many use 
rgb data. Many took several tries to get the neg to print right in the 
darkroom put I actually made a couple 20x24's. Piezo style ink printing blows 
them away though!
Steve M.
http://www.xray-art.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

who's outputting the negs.

shashinka@... wrote:

> 
> In a message dated 4/15/02 5:10:14 AM, julianthomas@... writes:
> 
> << Hi all,
> Has anyone tried outputting a PS file to a film recorder to get a 5x4
> neg??
> 
> Julian
> -----------------------------------
> Julian Thomas
> Bruc 168-6-1
> 08037 Barcelona >>
> 
> Yes, it is rather expensive, but it can work very well, and very
> little
> adjustment is needed.  Using an imagesetter for contact printing is
> another
> thing entirely-much less expensive, but more difficult.  Check
> DanBurkholder.com for more info.
> 
> All the best!
> 
> -Andrew Darlow
> 
> Photography, Digital Print Consulting and Custom Editions
> Andrew Darlow Images International, NYC www.andydarlow.com
> Author: Inkjet Tip of the Month Club (newsletter)
> To subscribe, send e-mail to: Inkjettips-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> 
>                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>                        ADVERTISEMENT
>                        [Click Here!]
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls
> and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
> keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
> various resources on the homepage.
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> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Hi Julian-
Sorry to jump into this late- I'm still recovering from tax-time!

I've had many 4x5 negs (B&W) made at Bowhaus in LA- they do a great job, the
resultant prints have been exhibited in prestigious galleries and museums at
up to 40x60.  They will do up to "80 res" - that means 80 dpmm, or a little
over 2000 DPI.  The maximum image size on the neg is 3.5" x 4.5".  They use
a Kodak LVT machine- my understanding is that it's the best.  Cost is about
$50/each.

It's costly, but it's great.

Hope this helps

Bill Morse
PhotoProspect
Cambridge, MA 02139

on 4/15/02 11:18 AM, Julian Thomas wrote:

thanks Andrew. I've looked at Dan's site, but isn't that more for contact
printing?? I'd like to output a print from a 6x6 neg inverted to neg ion PS
after getting a perfect (hah! that'll be theday) to 5x4 and then get a wet
print enlargement done. I've been quoted 150usd (gulp) for a 5x4 output from
a film recorder.

Julian

Julian

----- Original Message -----
From: <shashinka@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] digital neg


>
> In a message dated 4/15/02 5:10:14 AM, julianthomas@... writes:
>
> << Hi all,
> Has anyone tried outputting a PS file to a film recorder to get a 5x4
neg??
>
> Julian
> -----------------------------------
> Julian Thomas
> Bruc 168-6-1
> 08037 Barcelona >>
>
> Yes, it is rather expensive, but it can work very well, and very little
> adjustment is needed.  Using an imagesetter for contact printing is
another
> thing entirely-much less expensive, but more difficult.  Check
> DanBurkholder.com for more info.
>
> All the best!
>
> -Andrew Darlow
>
> Photography, Digital Print Consulting and Custom Editions
> Andrew Darlow Images International, NYC www.andydarlow.com
> Author: Inkjet Tip of the Month Club (newsletter)
> To subscribe, send e-mail to: Inkjettips-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


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- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Bill, that is the cheapest yet!

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Morse" <willym@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 1:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] digital neg


> Hi Julian-
> Sorry to jump into this late- I'm still recovering from tax-time!
>
> I've had many 4x5 negs (B&W) made at Bowhaus in LA- they do a great job,
the
> resultant prints have been exhibited in prestigious galleries and museums
at
> up to 40x60.  They will do up to "80 res" - that means 80 dpmm, or a
little
> over 2000 DPI.  The maximum image size on the neg is 3.5" x 4.5".  They
use
> a Kodak LVT machine- my understanding is that it's the best.  Cost is
about
> $50/each.
>
> It's costly, but it's great.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Bill Morse
> PhotoProspect
> Cambridge, MA 02139
>
> on 4/15/02 11:18 AM, Julian Thomas wrote:
>
> thanks Andrew. I've looked at Dan's site, but isn't that more for contact
> printing?? I'd like to output a print from a 6x6 neg inverted to neg ion
PS
> after getting a perfect (hah! that'll be theday) to 5x4 and then get a wet
> print enlargement done. I've been quoted 150usd (gulp) for a 5x4 output
from
> a film recorder.
>
> Julian
>
> Julian
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <shashinka@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 4:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] digital neg
>
>
> >
> > In a message dated 4/15/02 5:10:14 AM, julianthomas@... writes:
> >
> > << Hi all,
> > Has anyone tried outputting a PS file to a film recorder to get a 5x4
> neg??
> >
> > Julian
> > -----------------------------------
> > Julian Thomas
> > Bruc 168-6-1
> > 08037 Barcelona >>
> >
> > Yes, it is rather expensive, but it can work very well, and very little
> > adjustment is needed.  Using an imagesetter for contact printing is
> another
> > thing entirely-much less expensive, but more difficult.  Check
> > DanBurkholder.com for more info.
> >
> > All the best!
> >
> > -Andrew Darlow
> >
> > Photography, Digital Print Consulting and Custom Editions
> > Andrew Darlow Images International, NYC www.andydarlow.com
> > Author: Inkjet Tip of the Month Club (newsletter)
> > To subscribe, send e-mail to: Inkjettips-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep
> them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
"flames."
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
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> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
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> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
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>
>