Digital BW, The Print

set your foreground color in photoshop to 100 percent Cyan, and print
away. (paper full of cyan ink only).

Jerry




Steven Schaefer wrote:
> 
> If I wanted to just lay down the cyan ink. How could I do it. There is a
> large air bubble in my cyan line. The other lines seem to be OK.
> 
> I am using a nomorecarts CIS system on my 1160 using paul's curves.
> 
> Thanks Steve

Steven Schaefer wrote:

> 
> If I wanted to just lay down the cyan ink. How could I do it. There is a
> large air bubble in my cyan line. The other lines seem to be OK.

In a message dated 5/5/02 11:40:37 AM, stevenr@... writes:

>If I wanted to just lay down the cyan ink. How could I do it
 
RGB file with a large rectangle filled with the RGB value: 0, 255, 255.


C. David Tobie
Design Cooperative
CDTobie@...

CDTobie@... writes:

> In a message dated 5/5/02 11:40:37 AM, stevenr@... writes:
> 
> >If I wanted to just lay down the cyan ink. How could I do it
>  
> RGB file with a large rectangle filled with the RGB value: 0, 255, 255.

This is not a practical question; just a bit of niggling detail
curiousity.  Do you know through either driver analysis or microscopic
evaluation of the printed results that this puts down *only* cyan ink
in an absolute sense?  Or do you simply believe, as I do, that in
printing a large area of pure cyan, the driver has *gotta* use mostly
cyan ink?  

In terms of purging, in particular, there's no meaningful difference
between the two alternatives I mention.  But if you're using it to
measure a maximum density for a quadtone ink, for example, it may
matter, perhaps. 
-- 
David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@...  /  Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries
 John Dyer-Bennet 1915-2002 Memorial Site http://john.dyer-bennet.net
        Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/
                 Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., CDTobie@a... wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 5/5/02 11:40:37 AM, stevenr@m... writes:
> 
> >If I wanted to just lay down the cyan ink. How could I do it
>  
> RGB file with a large rectangle filled with the RGB value: 0, 255, 
255.
> 
> 
> C. David Tobie
> Design Cooperative
> CDTobie@d...

Adding to C.D's advice - Also in the Epson driver in the Advanced 
window, set Mode to "Vivid". There will be less chance of mixing 
other inks when set to Vivid.

Best,

John v.

I should have thought of that!!!

Thanks 

Steve

Jerry Olson wrote:

> 
> set your foreground color in photoshop to 100 percent Cyan, and print
> away. (paper full of cyan ink only).
> 
> Jerry
> 
> Steven Schaefer wrote:
> >
> > If I wanted to just lay down the cyan ink. How could I do it. There
> is a
> > large air bubble in my cyan line. The other lines seem to be OK.
> >
> > I am using a nomorecarts CIS system on my 1160 using paul's curves.
> >
> > Thanks Steve
> 
> Steven Schaefer wrote:
> >
> > If I wanted to just lay down the cyan ink. How could I do it. There
> is a
> > large air bubble in my cyan line. The other lines seem to be OK.
> 
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In a message dated 5/5/02 3:15:36 PM, dd-b@... writes:

>> >If I wanted to just lay down the cyan ink. How could I do it
>>  
>> RGB file with a large rectangle filled with the RGB value: 0, 255, 255.
>
>This is not a practical question; just a bit of niggling detail
>curiousity.  Do you know through either driver analysis or microscopic
>evaluation of the printed results that this puts down *only* cyan ink
>in an absolute sense?  Or do you simply believe, as I do, that in
>printing a large area of pure cyan, the driver has *gotta* use mostly
>cyan ink?  
>
>In terms of purging, in particular, there's no meaningful difference
>between the two alternatives I mention.  But if you're using it to
>measure a maximum density for a quadtone ink, for example, it may
>matter, perhaps. 

There are no direct controls with an RGB driver... often the only way to know 
what is really being printed for a given color is to have all the other heads 
be clogged. I was once at an Epson convention booth when the black in a p
articular model of Epson stopped printing entirely. What caught the attention 
of the Epson employee I was talking with was not the clog (ink is free and 
replacement printers easily available... kind of a printers ShangraLa) but 
the fact that there was a ghost of undercolor in the black text. He was as 
suprised as I was. We both thought that full black to any of the Epson 
drivers at any setting always printed K only. Its those kinds of details that 
make RGB quadtones such a mystery. Richard Wolfson is busy converting his 
quad system to a good RIP at the moment, and I don't expect to see him moving 
back!

C. David Tobie
Design Cooperative
CDTobie@...

David,

>There are no direct controls with an RGB driver...

Sad but true.  Although, in the partitioned workflows and with the right
settings, it appears we are able to get sufficient control of the inks to,
for example, lay down an apparently pure light-gray ink in the highlights.

One of the things we've been doing in setting up these machines and writing
the RGB control curves is finding the setting combination that keeps the
dark gray out of the highlights when the Photoshop image adjustment curves
are supposedly turning off those inks entirely. With the wrong settings and
with some of the printers, there will be dark dots in the highlights no
matter what the Photoshop curves are trying to do.  So, the settings can be
critical, and the drivers do not appear to be uniform in what they do.

I think the main reason I'd be interested in using a RIP now is to get
direct control of the black ink.

> ... I was once at an Epson convention booth when the black
>in a particular model of Epson stopped printing entirely.
>What caught the attention of the Epson employee I was
>talking with was not the clog ... but
>the fact that there was a ghost of undercolor in the black text.
>He was as surprised as I was. We both thought that
>full black to any of the Epson
>drivers at any setting always printed K only. ...

I have been curious about that also.  Some other experts claim that the
Epson 100% black is just that.  However, my suspicious are that most of the
drivers do mix in a little color.  Some of the evidence I see is that the
"black ink only" blacks are slightly darker, and I think there are slight
differences in the depth of black depending on which tone curve is used for
the MIS VM system.  This last observation (and I have not spent the time to
see what, if any, pattern there really is) might even indicate that the
driver is taking adjacent colors into affect.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:

<snip>
> Although, in the partitioned workflows and with the right
> settings, it appears we are able to get sufficient control of the
> inks to, for example, lay down an apparently pure light-gray ink in 
> the highlights.
<snip>

Paul:

When you say *with the right settings*, I assume you primarily mean 
checking the *no color correction box* in the Epson driver.  I've 
always assumed that doing so (without any direct knowledge) turned 
over control to the user defined profile (partitioned curve set) and 
that the Epson driver became just a pass-through translator of RGB to 
CYMK. 

My 1160 RGB partitioned curve set for the FS inkset appears to lay 
down pure light-gray ink, not only in the highlights, but from 255 to 
about 177 (or 0% to 30%) where the mid-gray ink kicks in.

Jeff Randall

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:

<snip>
>> Although, in the partitioned workflows and with the right
>> settings, it appears we are able to get sufficient control of the
>> inks to, for example, lay down an apparently pure light-gray ink in
>> the highlights.
<snip>

Jeff Randall wrote:

>When you say *with the right settings*, I assume you primarily mean
>checking the *no color correction box* in the Epson driver. ...

I activate the sliders in most of the variable-tone curves to give more
control of tone.  (If I had known there was a difference is the
cross-platform compatibility between these settings -- Auto, Vivid, etc. --
and the "No Color Adjustment" I might never have done that.)  So, one can
also get apparently pure inks in the highlights with at least some of those
settings.

Paul

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
 
I have been curious about that also.  Some other experts claim that 
the Epson 100% black is just that.  However, my suspicious are that 
most of the drivers do mix in a little color.  Some of the evidence I 
see is that the "black ink only" blacks are slightly darker, and I 
think there are slight differences in the depth of black depending on 
which tone curve is used for the MIS VM system.  This last 
observation (and I have not spent the time tosee what, if any, 
pattern there really is) might even indicate that the driver is 
taking adjacent colors into affect.
  
   Hey Paul. 
       Most desktop inkjet printers do this. They print a CMY 
composite if the black is going to be printed next next to a color. 
They do it to help control intercolor or interink mixing or "bleed". 
It helps to keep the black from getting all fuzzy and running into 
the colors. Why they would do it for black only I would guess that 
they are trying for a more nuetral black perhaps.

Jeff.

In a message dated 5/6/02 12:12:15 PM, paul.roark@... writes:

>I have been curious about that also.  Some other experts claim that the
>Epson 100% black is just that.  However, my suspicious are that most of
>the
>drivers do mix in a little color.

Epson has always been willing to do different things with different 
drivers... to the point that using the same profile for "sister" models can 
be impossible. I can think of several reasons for the addition of a bit of 
color to full black, even when the basic logic is to use the higher number of 
heads in black, with no color halos or head mialignment issues, for fine 
black text (and without PostScript there is no way to distinguish text black 
friom image black). One reason would be that for certain settings (uncoated 
paper for instance) 100% ink imay not be as dark as a higher ink limit, even 
when the added inks are colored. Another would be that a smother coverage 
might occur at some resolutions with more ink than 100% K would provide. Yet 
another would be that more photorealistic images could be printed, showing 
fewer artifacts in the dark tones, if the black generation curve was not 
pulled up to 100% at the end, but allowed to have a slightly lower slope and 
termination instead.

C. David Tobie
Design Cooperative
CDTobie@...

If we assume the nozzle-check pattern to be "honest", one could scan it and
compare it with printouts from different RGB patches. The obvious problem
being that the pattern is *thin*...
 
Alessandro Pardi
------------------------------------------------------------------------
One day I'll have a website.
Until then, you can see some of my work here:

http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=189247
<http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=189247> 
------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: David Dyer-Bennet [mailto:dd-b@...]
Sent: domenica 5 maggio 2002 21.21
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Cyan Ink


CDTobie@... writes:

> In a message dated 5/5/02 11:40:37 AM, stevenr@... writes:
> 
> >If I wanted to just lay down the cyan ink. How could I do it
>  
> RGB file with a large rectangle filled with the RGB value: 0, 255, 255.

This is not a practical question; just a bit of niggling detail
curiousity.  Do you know through either driver analysis or microscopic
evaluation of the printed results that this puts down *only* cyan ink
in an absolute sense?  Or do you simply believe, as I do, that in
printing a large area of pure cyan, the driver has *gotta* use mostly
cyan ink?  

In terms of purging, in particular, there's no meaningful difference
between the two alternatives I mention.  But if you're using it to
measure a maximum density for a quadtone ink, for example, it may
matter, perhaps. 
-- 
David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b@...  /  Ghugle: the Fannish Ghod of Queries
John Dyer-Bennet 1915-2002 Memorial Site http://john.dyer-bennet.net
<http://john.dyer-bennet.net> 
        Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/
<http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/> 
                 Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/
<http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> 


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