Digital BW, The Print

First of all, thanks to all for this wonderful group. I especially appreciate that Jerry can be as opinionated as he wants,  and no-one will chastise him (unlike some other groups I have seen).  This is obviously a group of individuals with diverse backgrounds, all quite serious about their photography. 
Like other members, I have been amazed at how I am able to bring new life to old images. I have been quite happy with my second hand Umax powerlook 3000 since I started mounting everything with Kami. The scans are beautiful and very sharp. I am not a street shooter, and most of my work has been medium format and 4X5. I recently took a Koni Omega Rapid 120 to Paris, and am delighted with the images. The optics are very nice (60mm and 135mm lenses), but the camera is an absolute beast regarding weight. I also can not get used to that rangefinder thing. I really want to see what will be on the film. 
So, does anyone out there have recommendations for a medium format SLR camera, preferably manual, not very heavy, with nice optics (the lenses above appear to have great Bokah), that also does not say "I am a Hasselblad, steal me!". This Koni is pretty ugly and threatening which is beneficial. BTW, I did have the Pentax 6x7 in the past, and a Horseman medium format. Both were too big and heavy. 
Thanks to all
Stephen


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Stephen,
for travelling I use a Makina 67 (produced by Plaubel), Nikon lens 
2,8/80 (very good). Format 6x7cm.
No SLR, but rangefinder with parallaxis-correction. 
Don´t really know how long they produced it (end of 80th I 
suppose). I´found a mint one on the sec.hand market for about 
$800. 
The hit is: you can fold down the lens into the body, so the whole 
thing becomes apperently flat to put it into your Jacket pocket, 
where it may cry: "I´m as good as a Hasselblad ..... " 
Shortcomming: no lens change possible (ore is that a plus for 
travelling?).
though I´m on a 4x5 or 8x10 camera normally, I took it to CA this 
spring to do all these AA and EW shootings again ... I just love 
the pictures ... 
Bernd








--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Stephen Kundell, MD" 
<skundell@p...> wrote:

> So, does anyone out there have recommendations for a 
medium format SLR camera, preferably manual, not very heavy, 
with nice optics (the lenses above appear to have great Bokah), 
that also does not say "I am a Hasselblad, steal me!". 
> Stephen

I think you've spec'ed yourself out of the market with
MF SLR
not very heavy
Just the mechanics of an SLR are going to add weight.

Maybe one of the Kiev remanufactured units would be suitable?
I've been bicycling around with an SL66 with two lenses and a pair 
of backs, and the weight is bearable in a shoulder bag.

Tim

> So, does anyone out there have recommendations for a medium format SLR
> camera, preferably manual, not very heavy, with nice optics (the
> lenses above appear to have great Bokah), that also does not say "I am
> a Hasselblad, steal me!". 


--
Tim Spragens
http://www.borderless-photos.com

I'm surprised nobody so far has mentioned the Pentax 645.  It's smaller 
and lighter than a 67 and has good optics and interchangeability.  I 
used one for quite awhile back when I was a photography student before 
I could afford a Hassy.  I thought it handled just like a 35mm, albeit 
a pregnant one.  Jo Bob says check it out...

Phil
http://philbard.com

> So, does anyone out there have recommendations for a medium format SLR camera, preferably manual, not very heavy, with nice optics (the lenses above appear to have great Bokah), that also does not say "I am a Hasselblad, steal me!". This Koni is pretty ugly and threatening which is beneficial. BTW, I did have the Pentax 6x7 in the past, and a Horseman medium format. Both were too big and heavy. 
> Thanks to all
> Stephen
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Stephen,

I've been using my mamiya C220 TLR lately, it's great. I also have a 330f
body but it's much heavier so I use the 220. You'd want to stick with the
later lens'es if you go that route for the coatings.

I put together a Mamiya Press system last year for the 6x9 format
specifically for maximizing the scanned area with med format, the thing was
just as cumbersome as my 4x5! Sold it and bought a Nikon 995 digital, heh
heh, feels like cheating to use it.

Larry

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Kundell, MD [mailto:skundell@...]
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 11:09 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Cameras


First of all, thanks to all for this wonderful group. I especially
appreciate that Jerry can be as opinionated as he wants,  and no-one will
chastise him (unlike some other groups I have seen).  This is obviously a
group of individuals with diverse backgrounds, all quite serious about their
photography.
Like other members, I have been amazed at how I am able to bring new life to
old images. I have been quite happy with my second hand Umax powerlook 3000
since I started mounting everything with Kami. The scans are beautiful and
very sharp. I am not a street shooter, and most of my work has been medium
format and 4X5. I recently took a Koni Omega Rapid 120 to Paris, and am
delighted with the images. The optics are very nice (60mm and 135mm lenses),
but the camera is an absolute beast regarding weight. I also can not get
used to that rangefinder thing. I really want to see what will be on the
film.
So, does anyone out there have recommendations for a medium format SLR
camera, preferably manual, not very heavy, with nice optics (the lenses
above appear to have great Bokah), that also does not say "I am a
Hasselblad, steal me!". This Koni is pretty ugly and threatening which is
beneficial. BTW, I did have the Pentax 6x7 in the past, and a Horseman
medium format. Both were too big and heavy.
Thanks to all
Stephen


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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> So, does anyone out there have recommendations for a medium
> format SLR camera, preferably manual, not very heavy, with nice
> optics (the lenses above appear to have great Bokah), that also
> does not say "I am a Hasselblad, steal me!".

I have traveled with a Hasselblad, sans prism and winder, with 110/2, shade
and strap...most everywhere (hiking, biking etc.) with no case...and never
had any problem.  It is quite a light camera, comparable to one of the
larger 35mm SLRs (or even a Leica M6 with 75/1.4 lense).  There really isn't
any MF SLR that is smaller, the Hasselblad is probably as small (volume
wise) as it gets for an MF SLR.  A Pentacon might be a decent choice, since
who cares if it gets stolen, and it has excellent Zeiss optics, but no meter
in the body.

The Hasselblad is my preferred traveling camera of choice...but if you are
in an area that you believe your Hasselblad is at risk...then I'd recommend
a folder/rangefinder, like a Fuji GS645...which is probably the smallest
excellent MF camera there is, short of an older Super Ikonta or Bessa
folder.  The Plaubel Makina 67/670 (later model with better lense
suspension) is exceptional...probably a better lense than the Fuji.  One
warning though, the Fuji has horrible bokeh, and the bellows should be
checked thoroughly for leaks.

Have you considered a very high end 35mm, like a Leica M6 or a Contax Aria?
They are also quite small, and the results are exceptional...not on par with
Hasselblad if you are going to be making 24x24 prints, but for anything 8.5
x 11 or below (and even one size larger), it will be quite adequate, IMO.

I've looked far and wide for a decent MF small camera...and I have yet to be
pleased with the results of any that I tried...if you are spoiled by a top
end MF, nothing else comes close IMO, though I do enjoy taking pictures with
my Super Ikontas, and the results are quite good...there is even one with a
built-in meter (not a good meter, but a meter none the less).

You are venturing into uncharted territory here. This obviously 
could evolve into a whole maillist of its own. But briefly, I've 
owned everything, and for street/travel I've settled on a 
Hasselblad 202FA or 203FE. Small, lightweight, incamera 
meter, auto or manual meter that's very accurate. I use the prism 
on top because I can't deal with the reversed image. I carry an 80 
and a 40; that's it.

Issues with others: Pentax 67: too big and floppy is the mirror; I 
couldn't shoot slow shutter speeds. Mamiya 6/7, Fuji 690, Leica: 
all rangefinders; same issue as yours--bugged me that I wasn't 
seeing what the lens was seeing, plus trouble focusing. Any 645 
or 35mm: too small a negative. Fuji 680 (all-time favorite 
camera) but way way too big.

These are just MY preferences and issues; like many other 
things, it's a big world out there, and you've almost got to try it
to find out what works for YOU.

I just did this whole soul-searching thing for ideal travel camera: 
ended up with Hassie 202FA and an XPan, with Kodak T400CN, 
on this trip to India in May. Let me tell you: India will flush out the 
best travel camera. I sold the Xpan when I got back, due to 
(again) the whole rangefinder thing. The images are at:

http://marktucker.com/india/

-Mark Tucker

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Stephen Kundell, MD" 
<skundell@p...> wrote:
> First of all, thanks to all for this wonderful group. I especially 
appreciate that Jerry can be as opinionated as he wants,  and 
no-one will chastise him (unlike some other groups I have 
seen).  This is obviously a group of individuals with diverse 
backgrounds, all quite serious about their photography. 
> Like other members, I have been amazed at how I am able to 
bring new life to old images. I have been quite happy with my 
second hand Umax powerlook 3000 since I started mounting 
everything with Kami. The scans are beautiful and very sharp. I 
am not a street shooter, and most of my work has been medium 
format and 4X5. I recently took a Koni Omega Rapid 120 to Paris, 
and am delighted with the images. The optics are very nice 
(60mm and 135mm lenses), but the camera is an absolute 
beast regarding weight. I also can not get used to that 
rangefinder thing. I really want to see what will be on the film. 
> So, does anyone out there have recommendations for a 
medium format SLR camera, preferably manual, not very heavy, 
with nice optics (the lenses above appear to have great Bokah), 
that also does not say "I am a Hasselblad, steal me!". This Koni 
is pretty ugly and threatening which is beneficial. BTW, I did have 
the Pentax 6x7 in the past, and a Horseman medium format. 
Both were too big and heavy. 

> Thanks to all
> Stephen
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Stephen,

you already got all the advice one can hope for and more.  I am very 
impressed. So I am just adding my two cents:

The issue of format in 120 is also something you need to consider up front. 
For example if you are using 6x6 but cropping it to 6x7 proportions, you might 
as well shoot 645 and benefit from the lighter weight and faster lenses. If you 
absolutely must have 6x7 for the extra "acreage", I doubt you will find anything 
portable in an SLR. Unlike Paul, I have found the Mamiya 7 to fit my hands 
like a glove and only wish Leica would copy _them_ instead of the other way 
around. But it is a rangefinder, so...

If you go to 645, I have no direct experience, but Phil's recommendation for 
the Pentax is one I have heard from others, as well as high marks for the 
Mamiya and the Contax 645. About the latter, don't be deceived by the Zeiss 
designation, the lenses are made in Japan, so not the same animal as the 
ones made for the Hassie. I offer no opinion on that issue, just wanted to point 
that out.

Regarding Paul's observations on the shutters and stability issues: Of course 
the compurs (spring shutters) will win over anything that needs to move the 
bigger mass of a focal plane curtain. However, if you look for a body that offers 
mirror up, you reduce the tripod requirements a great deal.  The F series 
Hasselblad, of course, offers the best of both worlds. 

But I would trade off the reflex view, for all the benefits of the Mamiya 7 on the 
road. The tiniest tripod can be pressed into service, the film path - according to 
Paul - is advantageous for sharpness, and some of the lenses (43 especially) 
are amazing, in part because the designers didn't have to fight the distance 
required by the mirror box. But I realize this may not be your cup o' tea....


Antonis

</moderator hat on> It helps to make thread titles as specific as possible so 
others can jump in or search later on. <hat off to everyone!>


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Stephen Kundell, MD" 
<skundell@p...> wrote:
> First of all, thanks to all for this wonderful group. I especially appreciate that 
Jerry can be as opinionated as he wants,  and no-one will chastise him 
(unlike some other groups I have seen).  This is obviously a group of 
individuals with diverse backgrounds, all quite serious about their 
photography. 
> Like other members, I have been amazed at how I am able to bring new life 
to old images. I have been quite happy with my second hand Umax 
powerlook 3000 since I started mounting everything with Kami. The scans are 
beautiful and very sharp. I am not a street shooter, and most of my work has 
been medium format and 4X5. I recently took a Koni Omega Rapid 120 to 
Paris, and am delighted with the images. The optics are very nice (60mm and 
135mm lenses), but the camera is an absolute beast regarding weight. I also 
can not get used to that rangefinder thing. I really want to see what will be on 
the film. 
> So, does anyone out there have recommendations for a medium format 
SLR camera, preferably manual, not very heavy, with nice optics (the lenses 
above appear to have great Bokah), that also does not say "I am a 
Hasselblad, steal me!". This Koni is pretty ugly and threatening which is 
beneficial. BTW, I did have the Pentax 6x7 in the past, and a Horseman 
medium format. Both were too big and heavy. 

> Thanks to all
> Stephen
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> ...the Contax 645. About the latter, don't be deceived by
> the Zeiss
> designation, the lenses are made in Japan, so not the same animal as the
> ones made for the Hassie. I offer no opinion on that issue, just
> wanted to point
> that out.

Bzzzzt.  I believe you did state an opinion, that they are "not the same
animal...".  They are designed by the same Zeiss engineers that design the
Hasselblad lenses, as well as their production in Japan is overseen by
Zeiss, and done to exact Zeiss standards.

Kyocera (who produces the Contax cameras) is the worlds leader in high
precision ceramic manufacture.  I'd be willing to bet they do an exceptional
job to say the least.  Ever handled/used a Contax camera (modern that
is...RTS III and beyond)?  If so, I believe you'd quickly see exceptional
quality and design are not an issue.

Thanks to all for the responses. Mark, that is an awesome collection from India.
Stephen


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

on 8/25/01 1:08 AM, Stephen Kundell, MD at skundell@... wrote:

> So, does anyone out there have recommendations for a medium format SLR camera,
> preferably manual, not very heavy, with nice optics (the lenses above appear
> to have great Bokah), that also does not say "I am a Hasselblad, steal me!".
> This Koni is pretty ugly and threatening which is beneficial. BTW, I did have
> the Pentax 6x7 in the past, and a Horseman medium format. Both were too big
> and heavy. 

I use and endorse (!) the Rolleiflex if you don't need interchangeable
lenses, and the Rollei SL66 if you do. The SL66 is *massively* underpriced
at the moment on the second hand market. The lenses are also very
reasonable. They are wonderful cameras. Hint: buy one in good condition as
they cost not much more than a beater and they are *very* mechanical, thus
beaters may spend some time in the shop (like mine).

Hadley Chamberlain is probably your best bet, but the guy who runs sl66.com
also seems pretty sound.

A source at Rollei told me that the mirror release mechanism was eventually
redesigned because a 1/1000 inch error caused the mirror to lock up in rare
circumstances, so a later SL66 is a better bet.

The magazines are all 120/220, another plus. And cheap too.

There is nothing to touch them optically or in terms of versatility at the
price IMO.

The Rolleigrip turns them into very, very nice handheld cameras.


-- 
John Brownlow

http://www.pinkheadedbug.com

ICQ: 109343205

I've got the wide version, been using it for years. Other than having troub=
le with seeing well through a rangefinder, I just 
love it, it's like a 6x7 Leica. Internal meter too, some film in your other=
 pocket and you're set.
...what you said...
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., " Ruhrfoto/Bernd L." <ruhrfoto@y.=
..> wrote:

> Stephen,
> for travelling I use a Makina 67 (produced by Plaubel), Nikon lens 
> 2,8/80 (very good). Format 6x7cm.
> No SLR, but rangefinder with parallaxis-correction. 
> Don´t really know how long they produced it (end of 80th I 
> suppose). I´found a mint one on the sec.hand market for about 
> $800. 
> The hit is: you can fold down the lens into the body, so the whole 
> thing becomes apperently flat to put it into your Jacket pocket, 
> where it may cry: "I´m as good as a Hasselblad ..... " 
> Shortcomming: no lens change possible (ore is that a plus for 
> travelling?).
> though I´m on a 4x5 or 8x10 camera normally, I took it to CA this 
> spring to do all these AA and EW shootings again ... I just love 
> the pictures ... 
> Bernd