Digital BW, The Print

I'm not complaining... I use a cis and other folks ink. You used the word
'conspiracy' as if to imply that the  mention that Epson over charges for
ink was wrong.

J
----- Original Message -----
From: "johnny999_99" <jdownie@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 6:01 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: OEM Ink Pricing & Econ 101


> Hello
>
> I am quite ready to believe that Epson follows this pricing
> strategy.  As does Gillette, for example.  But Epson is free to
> follow any pricing strategy that it chooses, and you are free to not
> buy an Epson printer.  Absent collusion, I can see no justification
> for complaint.
>
> > have you more info?? it is pretty well established that epson sells
> some
> > printers with marginal mark-up and makes the profit on the huge
> profits on
> > the inks.
> > Julian
>
>
>
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My apologies - I was speaking of the Euro-investigaors.  Epson is not 
over-charging, however.  They set a price, you make a decision.  Over-
charging is when you agree to one price and get charged a higher one.

well... the market sometimes needs regulating and if it means cheaper
prices, I'm not going to knock it, but then Europe has a slightly different
outlook than the US.

J
----- Original Message -----
From: "johnny999_99" <jdownie@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 6:09 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: OEM Ink Pricing & Econ 101


> My apologies - I was speaking of the Euro-investigaors.  Epson is not
> over-charging, however.  They set a price, you make a decision.  Over-
> charging is when you agree to one price and get charged a higher one.
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
"flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

johnny999_99 wrote:

>
>
> Let us explore the existence of barriers to entry here.
>
Ok.. and which of those cites references EU law governing 
anti-competitive practices?

>
> By the way, could it be that ALPS was killed by competition?
>
>
Personally, I think it was ALPS own crappy business practices, helped 
along by anti-competitive practices..


[Keith]
 
 

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

johnny999_99 wrote:

> Well Keith
>
>
> 1.  We have at least four very large players in the market.  If you
> agree that they compete among themselves, then I believe your whole
> argument evaporates. 

No it doesn't you are ignoring the issue of vertical, as opposed to 
horizontal, market control..

> The companies can only price their products,
> printer+consumables, such that they recveive a fair return on the
> capital invested.  If Epson gives away it's printers but charges $300
> for cartridges, they are unlikely to do well in the marketplace. 
> People will buy from one of the other suppliers because they have
> considered the total cost of the product.  The ability to charge
> infra-marginal total prices is constrained by the presence of
> competition. N'est ce pas?

Not exactly... Consumer, rationally, should consider Total Cost of 
Ownership.. The reality is, they often consider ONLY upfront cost..

>
>
> 2.  The fact that Epson has "chipped" its cartridges (a measure that
> has already been defeated)is proof that the entry barriers to 3rd
> party cartirdge makers cannot be particularly high.  The story that
> you quoted speaks to the high market share (11 percent)of these 3rd
> party vendors.  I am having trouble seeing this as a difficult market
> to enter.

Antoi-competitive Lawsuits by EPSON and Canon have made it tougher..

>
> So, we have a market where the incumbents are competing among
> themselves and where 3rd party vendors can easily enter the higher
> profit, consumables segment.  No wonder no-one is entering the
> printer market.  I'm thinking that this might not be a ripe target
> for price regulation.

We aren't talking real price regulation here... What we are talking 
about is prohibiting dumping the printer and then balancing out the cost 
by making consumable costs unrealistically high... I've alread addressed 
how that becomes and effective bar to entry..

>

[Keith]
 
 

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> We aren't talking real price regulation here... What we are talking 
> about is prohibiting dumping the printer and then balancing out the 
cost 
> by making consumable costs unrealistically high... I've alread 
addressed 
> how that becomes and effective bar to entry..
> 
> >
> 
> [Keith]
>  

I thought this was over.  Alas....

Would you prohibit the low price for the printer too?  Presumably it 
is "unrealistically low".  Epson should be prevented from such 
unrealistic behavior.

You have asserted that an "effective barrier" exists, but doesn't 
that 11% 3rd party market share give you any doubts?

I am sure Gillette will be your next target for vertical market power.