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[Digital BW] Medium Format--Rangefinders

[Digital BW] Medium Format--Rangefinders

2002-05-30 by Paul Roark

Robert,

> Have you shot a Mamiya 7II?  I'm curious how it compares to
>the Bronica and Fuji

I rented one for a weekend because the conventional wisdom is that the 7II
is the camera of choice.  However, I just did not like it's handling, and
while the lenses have a great reputation and (to the extent I could test
them) tested out as good, the body workmanship and feel were not impressive
at all.

I couldn't entirely test the machine because the rangefinder was so far off
as to be useless.  There are a lot of threads about that rangefinder, and I
suspect it is more prone to problems than most.

I, also, prefer the 645 format because I shoot a fair number of 2-frame
compositions.  I do this either to extend the depth of field (dual focus) or
to get super-wide-angle, 2-frame, side-by-side shots that I stitch (rather
easy with digital and PS perspective controls).  To do these I like to be
able to keep the two frames attached and scan them, if not together, as
least without touching the film/holder.  That way the images are easier to
align.  With my equipment and habits, the 645 images are easier to do this
with.  The two 645 images are close to a 6x9 and fit into my 4x5 enlarger
and other equipment while still together.

I also like as many shots on a single roll as possible, while finding the
645 the minimum that I can live with in terms of quality.  Developing film
is not my favorite activity, so the fewer rolls, the better.

The Fuji is really a glorified point-and-shoot.  As Austin noted, the AF is
weak, but one can learn its capabilities and live with it.  The camera does
have enough manual controls to go fine, tripod-mounted landscapes, dual
focusing, etc.  The Fuji does have some advantages. The zoom is great --
limited 55 - 90 range, but good enough to not worry about the optical
quality.  The Zi also focuses to 1 meter at its 90 mm lens setting.  The
maximum 90 mm, however, is not quite to my liking.

I bought the Bronica RF 645 primarily for the manual focusing and the 135 mm
lens (available through Robert White).  The optics are fantastic -- about
the best I've seen on any format.  And it's handling and finish/feel are
great.

(One thing I always do with rectangular format cameras is make a bracket so
that there are tripod threads on both the bottom and the end of the camera
for convenient tripod mounting.  The 7II didn't lend itself to this as well
as the Bronica.)

So, I don't want to over-sell any of these machines, but right now it looks
like the Zi and Bronica are keepers.  I use the Zi for family events and
where light weight and speed are paramount, and the Bronica RF for more
serious shooting where I'll want the 135 and have time to change lenses.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Medium Format--Rangefinders

2002-05-30 by Robert G. Morrison

On 5/30/02 12:31 PM, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> wrote:

> So, I don't want to over-sell any of these machines, but right now it looks
> like the Zi and Bronica are keepers.  I use the Zi for family events and
> where light weight and speed are paramount, and the Bronica RF for more
> serious shooting where I'll want the 135 and have time to change lenses.

Thanks Paul,  I'm more inclined towards the 6x7 format and didn't like the
Pentax 67II that I tried a while back (mainly because of mirror vibration).
A friend who has the Mamiya and loves it...so I figured I'd give that a try.
A body, the 43 and 65mm lenses will cost me $200 for a week...so I figure
its worth a try.  If I don't like it...I'll give the Bronica a try...but if
I'm going for negative "real estate"...I really would rather go 6x7.  Looks
like the Fuji GW670III might also be a candidate.

Robert

RE: [Digital BW] Medium Format--Rangefinders

2002-05-30 by Austin Franklin

> Looks
> like the Fuji GW670III might also be a candidate.

Hi Robert,

You may not like the Fuji lenses...they are sharp, but their bokeh is a bit
"disturbing"...  Also, I'm not sure if that has a meter in it or not...I
know the 690 doesn't, and that turned me off from getting one.

Regards,

Austin

Re[2]: [Digital BW] Medium Format--Rangefinders

2002-05-30 by Richard Sintchak

Thursday, May 30, 2002, 1:07:58 PM, Robert G. Morrison wrote:

RGM> Thanks Paul,\ufffd I'm more inclined towards the 6x7 format and didn't like the
RGM> Pentax 67II that I tried a while back (mainly because of mirror vibration).
RGM> A friend who has the Mamiya and loves it...so I figured I'd give that a try.
RGM> A body, the 43 and 65mm lenses will cost me $200 for a week...so I figure
RGM> its worth a try.\ufffd If I don't like it...I'll give the Bronica a try...but if
RGM> I'm going for negative "real estate"...I really would rather go 6x7.\ufffd Looks
RGM> like the Fuji GW670III might also be a candidate.

RGM> Robert


Robert,

FWIW, I love my Fuji GW690III which is the same as the 670 but
different film masking and film-advance settings. I like it so much I
set up a site for the Fuji Rangefinder lovers of the world:
www.fujirangefinder.com

Feel free to check it out.

The Fuji's are completely different animals than the Mamiyas/Pentaxes,
I personally relish the Fuji RF's simplicity.

Best regards,
 Richard  

mailto:richard@...

Re: Re[2]: [Digital BW] Medium Format--Rangefinders

2002-05-30 by Robert G. Morrison

Thanks for the suggestion...your site was very useful but I really want an
onboard metering system...so I think the Fuji is out.

Robert
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 5/30/02 2:19 PM, "Richard Sintchak" <richard@...> wrote:

> Thursday, May 30, 2002, 1:07:58 PM, Robert G. Morrison wrote:
> 
> RGM> Thanks Paul,  I'm more inclined towards the 6x7 format and didn't like
> the
> RGM> Pentax 67II that I tried a while back (mainly because of mirror
> vibration).
> RGM> A friend who has the Mamiya and loves it...so I figured I'd give that a
> try.
> RGM> A body, the 43 and 65mm lenses will cost me $200 for a week...so I figure
> RGM> its worth a try.  If I don't like it...I'll give the Bronica a try...but
> if
> RGM> I'm going for negative "real estate"...I really would rather go 6x7. 
> Looks
> RGM> like the Fuji GW670III might also be a candidate.
> 
> RGM> Robert
> 
> 
> Robert,
> 
> FWIW, I love my Fuji GW690III which is the same as the 670 but
> different film masking and film-advance settings. I like it so much I
> set up a site for the Fuji Rangefinder lovers of the world:
> www.fujirangefinder.com
> 
> Feel free to check it out.
> 
> The Fuji's are completely different animals than the Mamiyas/Pentaxes,
> I personally relish the Fuji RF's simplicity.
> 
> Best regards,
> Richard  
> 
> mailto:richard@...
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> "flames.";
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] Medium Format--Rangefinders

2002-05-30 by Paul Roark

Robert,

You wrote:

> didn't like the Pentax 67II that I tried a while back
>(mainly because of mirror vibration).

For sharpness with a light tripod, even if you can lock up the mirror, the
inherent vibration of focal plane shutters is a killer.  So, a leaf shutter
was a requirement for me.  They are virtually vibration free.  For us
backpackers, total system weight is critical, and a big, heavy tripod is
unnecessary dead weight I no longer have any interest in.

So, one way or another, I think the leaf-shutter, MF rangefinder is the way
to go if you don't need close-up capability.  (Flowers really don't make
great B&W subjects, I've found.)

Paul

Re: [Digital BW] Medium Format--Rangefinders

2002-05-30 by Robert G. Morrison

On 5/30/02 4:06 PM, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> wrote:

> Robert,
> 
> You wrote:
> 
>> didn't like the Pentax 67II that I tried a while back
>> (mainly because of mirror vibration).
> 
> For sharpness with a light tripod, even if you can lock up the mirror, the
> inherent vibration of focal plane shutters is a killer.  So, a leaf shutter
> was a requirement for me.  They are virtually vibration free.  For us
> backpackers, total system weight is critical, and a big, heavy tripod is
> unnecessary dead weight I no longer have any interest in.
> 
> So, one way or another, I think the leaf-shutter, MF rangefinder is the way
> to go if you don't need close-up capability.  (Flowers really don't make
> great B&W subjects, I've found.)
> 
Yep,  with you all the way on that appraisal...I think its also the way to
go for available light model work where you don't want to be tied down by
mirror lockup and a tripod.  Typically in the locations that I shoot I can
light for f4.

Robert

Re: [Digital BW] Medium Format--Rangefinders

2002-05-30 by pleistocenehome

Hi!

I have been using a Mamiya 7II for a year or so now and have run 
hundreds of rolls of film through it.  I'm really satisfied.   I have 
four lenses and find them to be super sharp.  Ideal for 
backpacking or long hikes in the mountains-my first love.   
However, I can't imagine using it without a tripod and cable 
release.  I have a really light weight aluminum job that I hang a 
bag of rocks from and it becomes very solid.  Or a heavy sucker 
that I use on short hikes and from the roadside.  I can print at 
~300 dpi on my Epson 10K and get ~30x40 prints without 
interpolation (from Nikon 8000 scans at 4000 dpi).  This is the 
advantage of a 6x7 transparency.  Not B&W I realize, but how 
does the camera lens know.  The through-the-lens MF cameras 
are truly beasts - let the young and strong haul these around.  
Similarly I gave up my 4x5 a long time ago, back when I had a 
wet darkroom and did a lot more B&W.   One of these days I will 
get an Epson 7000 or 9000 or somesuch and try my hand at 
B&W again with third party inks and papers.  Ah - life is too short. 

Tom Andrews
www.wildlandart.com  (warning! - color work only)


> Robert,
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> > didn't like the Pentax 67II that I tried a while back
> >(mainly because of mirror vibration).
> 
> For sharpness with a light tripod, even if you can lock up the 
mirror, the
> inherent vibration of focal plane shutters is a killer.  So, a leaf 
shutter
> was a requirement for me.  They are virtually vibration free.  For 
us
> backpackers, total system weight is critical, and a big, heavy 
tripod is
> unnecessary dead weight I no longer have any interest in.
> 
> So, one way or another, I think the leaf-shutter, MF rangefinder 
is the way
> to go if you don't need close-up capability.  (Flowers really don't 
make
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> great B&W subjects, I've found.)
> 
> Paul

RE: Re[2]: [Digital BW] Medium Format--Rangefinders

2002-05-31 by Austin Franklin

> I like it so much I
> set up a site for the Fuji Rangefinder lovers of the world:
> www.fujirangefinder.com
>
> Feel free to check it out.

Hi Richard,

Thank you for taking the time to set up the web page, and the information on
it!  It appears to be a great resource!

Regards,

Austin

Re: [Digital BW] Medium Format--Rangefinders

2002-05-31 by butchhul

I will add a vote for the Mamiya 7 II, I have it and several lenses, 
love the 43, and so far it has worked beautifully. Wish the 
Rangefinder square was a little bit larger, but that holds true for 
every MF Rangefinder I've used.  Been making large prints on a 
7000 from the negs and they hold up very well.

Butch Hulett

RE: Re[2]: [Digital BW] Medium Format--Rangefinders

2002-05-31 by Shire,Stanley

While there has been much talk of the rangefinder problems (new cameras
with misaligned rangefinders) I'm pretty sure this was a problem with
the Mamiya 7 and not with the 7II. The original M7s, when sent to Mamiya
and aligned, were just fine and stayed that way. My 7II was perfect out
of the box and after many years of using Hassy I am thrilled with this
camera. Not that there's anything wrong with the Hassy, but I needed a
lighter, more "carryable" camera. The lenses are sensational (especially
the 43mm), the negative size is wonderful and the meter is dead on
accurate. Because the lens design did not have to take into account a
mirror, the distortion with the rectilinear 43mm (21mm equivalent)is
approx. .01% at the corners.
If you are looking at a medium format, it is worth checking the M7II.

Stan Shire
Associate Professor/Department Chair
Photographic Imaging
Community College of Philadelphia
Adobe Photoshop 6 A.C.E.
 
215 751-8320
sshire@...
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Austin Franklin [mailto:darkroom@...] 
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 8:20 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Re[2]: [Digital BW] Medium Format--Rangefinders


> I like it so much I
> set up a site for the Fuji Rangefinder lovers of the world:
> www.fujirangefinder.com
>
> Feel free to check it out.

Hi Richard,

Thank you for taking the time to set up the web page, and the
information on
it!  It appears to be a great resource!

Regards,

Austin



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- Include your full name with your message.
- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
"flames."
- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage. 


 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

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