Digital BW, The Print

In a message dated 7/1/02 12:50:39 PM, heliar@... writes:

>Considering the purchase of the Epson 2200, it occurs to me that it 
>will not support any kind of continuous ink system, and that its b&w 
>inks are limited to mainly neutral greys only. 

Not at all, its quite the opposite, offering controls for tinted black and 
white tones right out of the box!

C. David Tobie
Design Cooperative
CDTobie@...

CDTobie@... wrote:

>In a message dated 7/1/02 12:50:39 PM, heliar@attbi.com writes:
>
>  
>
>>Considering the purchase of the Epson 2200, it occurs to me that it 
>>will not support any kind of continuous ink system, and that its b&w 
>>inks are limited to mainly neutral greys only. 
>>    
>>
>
>Not at all, its quite the opposite, offering controls for tinted black and 
>white tones right out of the box!
>
>  
>
Dave,

That answers one issue, but, in your opinion, will it be able to support 
a CIS, or will it mean unquestioned dependence upon a system that 
 forces use of ONLY EPSON carts?

A CIS might be a good option, even if one had to buy 9600 carts to get 
the ultrachrome ink at a reasonable price/ounce..

BTW:  I wonder if anyone has specs on the volume of ink per 2200 
cartridge?  I'm wondering what the per ounce cost of the inks in the 
2200 cartridges is when compared to that of the 9600 or 7600.. I'm 
betting that it is significantly higher, since with the 7600 and 9600 
EPSON does not design pricing based upon recouping the true printer cost 
through consumable sales..

 


Keith
 
 

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 7/1/02 2:30:46 PM, editor@... writes:

>
>
>That answers one issue, but, in your opinion, will it be able to support
>
>
>a CIS, or will it mean unquestioned dependence upon a system that 
>
> forces use of ONLY EPSON carts?
>
>
>
>A CIS might be a good option, even if one had to buy 9600 carts to get
>
>
>the ultrachrome ink at a reasonable price/ounce..
>
>
Thats a matter of whether anyone finds it worthwhile to hack this particular 
set of smart carts, when there will be little demand for third party ink with 
this machine. I suspect it will be a while before anyone is running the 2200 
on anything but 2200 carts.

C. David Tobie
Design Cooperative
CDTobie@...

Monday, July 1, 2002, 11:47:23 AM, CDTobie@... wrote:

Cac> Thats a matter of whether anyone finds it worthwhile to hack this particular 
Cac> set of smart carts, when there will be little demand for third party ink with 
Cac> this machine. I suspect it will be a while before anyone is running the 2200 
Cac> on anything but 2200 carts.


I disagree. I give it 3-6 months tops.  While these new inks, from all
the hype, are all we could ever want, they are going to be expensive.
If these inks are so good then perhaps one of the two main reasons for
3rd party inks has been compromised, desire for better inks be that
for color or for archival purposes.  But the other reason still exists
--cost.  The savings of carts vs. a good CIS will still be tremendous.

Best regards,
 Richard  

mailto:richard@...

Does anyone know the current version of Paul Roark's curves for the 1160
Printer and VM inks?

I had to resurrect an 1160 printer I had in storage along with it's CIS
system today. My 1280 died.  

It was stored over a year, with it's inks.  

It took about 25 head cleanings, but now it works just like new. I'll
have to revert to the 1160 curves, but mine are at least a year old, and
was wondering if someone had the latest version, or knew what number it
was.  I'm only interested in the Cold, Cool, and Neutral curves.

and does ANYbody know the capacity of the 2200 ink carts? It'd be easier
to find Bin Laden than to find out that information. I can't understand
why it's so secretive.

I hear they are selling now. Mac Zone said they sold 3 already, and have
many more on back order.

Jerry

CD, 

Have you seen output from the 2200?  Your opinion? How good are the
black and white prints?

Jerry

Are there newer ones than those found on the MIS website and in this files
section of this forum?

Thanks,
Doug

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Olson [mailto:jerryolson@...]
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 10:55 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson 2200, 1280, and Quad Tone options


Does anyone know the current version of Paul Roark's curves for the 1160
Printer and VM inks?

Jerry,

MIS just updated Paul's workflows on their site so you should be able to get
the most current info there. The Cold in not included for any of the
printers anymore. I believe Paul is on vacation at the moment so you will
need too get that curve from someone else.

On the 2200, seems like someone posted an estimate awhile back. Based on
comparative pages per cartridge they came up with 10 to 12cc per chamber.
The refill volume on a 1280 cartridge is 12cc and on a virgin empty 18cc. So
the 2200 may hold a bit less ink per cartridge. Bottom line we just aren't
going to know until they are out there and in use. It won't just be a matter
of cartridge volume but of ink coverage too.

I am very curious myself and, if the color metamerism is okay, I will
probably buy one to replace my wife's 1270 for color photos and of course
check out the B&W capability <G>.

Martin Wesley
http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html



----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson 2200, 1280, and Quad Tone options


> Does anyone know the current version of Paul Roark's curves for the 1160
> Printer and VM inks?
>
> I had to resurrect an 1160 printer I had in storage along with it's CIS
> system today. My 1280 died.
>
> It was stored over a year, with it's inks.
>
> It took about 25 head cleanings, but now it works just like new. I'll
> have to revert to the 1160 curves, but mine are at least a year old, and
> was wondering if someone had the latest version, or knew what number it
> was.  I'm only interested in the Cold, Cool, and Neutral curves.
>
> and does ANYbody know the capacity of the 2200 ink carts? It'd be easier
> to find Bin Laden than to find out that information. I can't understand
> why it's so secretive.
>
> I hear they are selling now. Mac Zone said they sold 3 already, and have
> many more on back order.
>
> Jerry
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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"flames."
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> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

I've been promised 2 loaned sample prints, one color and one b&w, from 
an 7600 distributer in my area. Done on Someset velvet. Should be 
seeing them any day now.

Epson is also apparently sending out a few sample prints. You could 
try calling them and begging politely.<g> I went this route too, but 
nothing has shown up yet here either.

I would like to make a point in that, while I agree with the CIS/CFS 
1280/1160 route being a cheap and proven way to go, AND that certainly 
 the Epson 2200 carts will be $$$, that any economics class will 
introduce the concept of opportunity cost, which is hidden, non-$$ 
costs (like not paying $ for air poluution when you buy a car).

The pigment inks we currently use on our 1280's and 1160's were not 
designed to be used with the printheads, and a lot of fuss and clogs 
result. The $$$Epson inks for the 2200 were designed to be used with 
the printer. It is also a complete turnkey solution designed for 
(ahem) about 80 years of stability and little (ahem ahem) metamerism. 
I'm not saying the real cost advantage is Epson instead of MIS, just 
that many things in addition to cart volume/cost determine which 
printer/inkset to use. 
Jim H.

> The pigment inks we currently use on our 1280's and 1160's were not
> designed to be used with the printheads, and a lot of fuss and clogs
> result.

I've just had a 240euro bill for waht I thought was a new head for my 1160,
turns out the printer needs a total strip down and clean due to too much
windex and ink all over the place. Epson Spain weren't too impressed by my
use of a CIS - first time they'd seen one I think.

Julian