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Mixing MIS-FS & FSN inks...

Mixing MIS-FS & FSN inks...

2002-07-20 by akivisuals

I'm thinking of getting started with a CFS for my 1160 and am 
trying to determine which inks to use.  I want to use the Piezo 
driver with MIS FS inks (for ink costs), but am hesitating between 
the FS and FS-N inks.  After checking out the step wedges on 
this site showing the blends and the regular wedges with FS 
and FS-N inks I've decided that a blend would be a good 
alternative to the coolness of the FS-N and the warmth of the FS.  

Now my question is, how will mixing the inks affect the fading of 
the inks.  Paul Roark's 300 hr fade test tells me that the FS-N is 
way more fade resistant (actually color shift resistant).  Will 
blending 50/50 between the two inks cause a significant color 
shift in fade tests?  Also, which inks need to be blended?  Just 
the 3 greys or does the black ink need to be blended as well?  
Are the blacks the same in both inksets?  

Thanks to all of you on this website.  You've all been so helpful in 
answering questions as I get started down this exciting 
quadtone path!  

Andy

Re: [Digital BW] Mixing MIS-FS & FSN inks...

2002-07-20 by Richard Sintchak

Saturday, July 20, 2002, 11:21:07 AM, akivisuals wrote:

a> I'm thinking of getting started with a CFS for my 1160 and am 
a> trying to determine which inks to use.  I want to use the Piezo 
a> driver with MIS FS inks (for ink costs), but am hesitating between 
a> the FS and FS-N inks.  After checking out the step wedges on 
a> this site showing the blends and the regular wedges with FS 
a> and FS-N inks I've decided that a blend would be a good 
a> alternative to the coolness of the FS-N and the warmth of the FS.  

a> Now my question is, how will mixing the inks affect the fading of 
a> the inks.  Paul Roark's 300 hr fade test tells me that the FS-N is 
a> way more fade resistant (actually color shift resistant).  Will 
a> blending 50/50 between the two inks cause a significant color 
a> shift in fade tests?  Also, which inks need to be blended?  Just 
a> the 3 greys or does the black ink need to be blended as well?  
a> Are the blacks the same in both inksets?  

a> Thanks to all of you on this website.  You've all been so helpful in 
a> answering questions as I get started down this exciting 
a> quadtone path!  

a> Andy


Hi Andy,

As usual Martin's reply is erudite and not to be dismissed.  But I'll
throw in my latest experience as well.

I did get my new CFS with FS-N inks up and running yesterday so I can
comment (subjectively) on my recent direct experience of using the FS
and FS-N inks. To me the FS-N is not as cool as I thought it would be.
I would say that the FS-N is not as cool as the FS is warm (which is
the way it is supposed to be). Side by side one can definitely see the
difference and comparing this way the FS-N does look slightly cool.
However when viewed separately it's a different story. In the FS one
alone one can see some warmth. Not a lot, but definite warmth. I like
warmth but to me if a print is going to be warm it should not be
subtly warm but should be definitely warm, perhaps even starting to
look sepia. The FS-N when viewed alone one cannot really see the
coolness. It simply looks neutral. If you are used to viewing warm
prints, or particularly like warmer prints, than you might think the
FS-N looks cool but the coolness is not something that is easily seen
like the warmth of FS is. My first day opinion is that I like the FS-N
very much, nice and neutral. But I can also see where the FS warmth
might work better in some circumstances. But with the FS-N it's less
warmth and more neutral that I wanted and that's exactly what I got.

As I mentioned I considered mixing also since I have two sets of 4 oz
bottles of FS and FS-N. But in the end decided to go straight on the
FS-N if only for the purposed of establishing a benchmark in my eye
and mind of what FS-N looks like as a "stock" ink. This adds better to
my knowledge base of digital inks rather than doing a mix and not
knowing whether I have successfully warmed up the FS-N results or not
since I'd have no idea what FS-N looked like if I did not see it first
for myself. I can see how perhaps you want to find that perfect
combination straight off but I think as a newbie if you start right
off mixing inks you'll only confuse yourself. Just my 2 cents....

Best regards,
 Richard  

mailto:richard@...

Re: [Digital BW] Mixing MIS-FS & FSN inks...

2002-07-20 by akivisuals

Thanks Martin, Paul and Richard.  Martin's thoughts on the 50/50 
mix warming as much as the FS at 100% seems to steer me 
towards the FS-N.  Also, Richard has a good point.  As a 
"newbie" to quadtone printing, I might be better served just 
getting used to making good prints with one inkset rather than 
adding to the list of variables of things that might go wrong.  The 
step wedges of the FS-N don't strike me as being excessively 
cool, so perhaps I'll go with those inks for it's neutrality and fade 
resistance.  Richard, any comments on that MIS CFS system?  
Easy to set up? 

Thanks again!

Andy



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Richard Sintchak 
<richard@c...> wrote:
> Saturday, July 20, 2002, 11:21:07 AM, akivisuals wrote:
> 
> a> I'm thinking of getting started with a CFS for my 1160 and 
am 
> a> trying to determine which inks to use.  I want to use the 
Piezo 
> a> driver with MIS FS inks (for ink costs), but am hesitating 
between 
> a> the FS and FS-N inks.  After checking out the step wedges 
on 
> a> this site showing the blends and the regular wedges with 
FS 
> a> and FS-N inks I've decided that a blend would be a good 
> a> alternative to the coolness of the FS-N and the warmth of 
the FS.  
> 
> a> Now my question is, how will mixing the inks affect the 
fading of 
> a> the inks.  Paul Roark's 300 hr fade test tells me that the 
FS-N is 
> a> way more fade resistant (actually color shift resistant).  Will 
> a> blending 50/50 between the two inks cause a significant 
color 
> a> shift in fade tests?  Also, which inks need to be blended?  
Just 
> a> the 3 greys or does the black ink need to be blended as 
well?  
> a> Are the blacks the same in both inksets?  
> 
> a> Thanks to all of you on this website.  You've all been so 
helpful in 
> a> answering questions as I get started down this exciting 
> a> quadtone path!  
> 
> a> Andy
> 
> 
> Hi Andy,
> 
> As usual Martin's reply is erudite and not to be dismissed.  But 
I'll
> throw in my latest experience as well.
> 
> I did get my new CFS with FS-N inks up and running yesterday 
so I can
> comment (subjectively) on my recent direct experience of using 
the FS
> and FS-N inks. To me the FS-N is not as cool as I thought it 
would be.
> I would say that the FS-N is not as cool as the FS is warm 
(which is
> the way it is supposed to be). Side by side one can definitely 
see the
> difference and comparing this way the FS-N does look slightly 
cool.
> However when viewed separately it's a different story. In the FS 
one
> alone one can see some warmth. Not a lot, but definite 
warmth. I like
> warmth but to me if a print is going to be warm it should not be
> subtly warm but should be definitely warm, perhaps even 
starting to
> look sepia. The FS-N when viewed alone one cannot really see 
the
> coolness. It simply looks neutral. If you are used to viewing 
warm
> prints, or particularly like warmer prints, than you might think 
the
> FS-N looks cool but the coolness is not something that is 
easily seen
> like the warmth of FS is. My first day opinion is that I like the 
FS-N
> very much, nice and neutral. But I can also see where the FS 
warmth
> might work better in some circumstances. But with the FS-N 
it's less
> warmth and more neutral that I wanted and that's exactly what I 
got.
> 
> As I mentioned I considered mixing also since I have two sets 
of 4 oz
> bottles of FS and FS-N. But in the end decided to go straight on 
the
> FS-N if only for the purposed of establishing a benchmark in 
my eye
> and mind of what FS-N looks like as a "stock" ink. This adds 
better to
> my knowledge base of digital inks rather than doing a mix and 
not
> knowing whether I have successfully warmed up the FS-N 
results or not
> since I'd have no idea what FS-N looked like if I did not see it 
first
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> for myself. I can see how perhaps you want to find that perfect
> combination straight off but I think as a newbie if you start right
> off mixing inks you'll only confuse yourself. Just my 2 cents....
> 
> Best regards,
>  Richard  
> 
> mailto:richard@c...

Re[2]: [Digital BW] Mixing MIS-FS & FSN inks...

2002-07-21 by Richard Sintchak

Saturday, July 20, 2002, 4:51:04 PM, akivisuals wrote:

a> Richard, any comments on that MIS CFS system?  
a> Easy to set up? 


Yes, quite easy really.  Need to follow the instructions exactly since
if you lose the vacuum by letting a tube disconnect or come out of the
ink while filling you're screwed.  But it's not hard at all and was
"painless".  The vacuum pump method seems much easier than the
needle syringe method I read about.  And as for connecting the tube
system to the printer, again, quite easy.

Best regards,
 Richard  

mailto:richard@...

Re: Re[2]: [Digital BW] Mixing MIS-FS & FSN inks...

2002-07-21 by Barry Kelsall

> a> Richard, any comments on that MIS CFS system?
> a> Easy to set up?
>
>
> Yes, quite easy really.  Need to follow the instructions exactly since
> if you lose the vacuum by letting a tube disconnect or come out of the
> ink while filling you're screwed.  But it's not hard at all and was
> "painless".  The vacuum pump method seems much easier than the
> needle syringe method I read about.  And as for connecting the tube
> system to the printer, again, quite easy.
>
> Best regards,
>  Richard

I would add to get both the big vaccuum syringe and the small "fill from
bottom" syringe & adapters. If something goes wrong & you get an incomplete
vaccuum resulting in a partially filled ink chamber, you can then "pull" the
ink through the bottom of the cart with the small syringe & clear plastic
adapter, squirting the excess back into the bottle. Do this until the foam
disappears. I have set up 12 CIS/CFS systems & even with this much
experience I had to use this "save" procedure on #11!

good luck,
-BK

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